MARRS 4

[mlytle]

looks like another big event. over 300 cars registered as of a few minutes ago. about 70 IT cars in two groups.

[JamesB]

i am looking forward to it. now if the weather steward can get mother nature to give a nice pleasant weekend.

[spnkzss]

i am looking forward to it. now if the weather steward can get mother nature to give a nice pleasant weekend.
[/b]

Saturday clear and low 80s.

Sunday clean and high 80 low 90s.

[JamesB]

I know man, its going to rock, though I might invest in the cool suite this weekend specially now that I am making the august race.

[spnkzss]

I know man, its going to rock, though I might invest in the cool suite this weekend specially now that I am making the august race.
[/b]

I won't be there this weekend without mine. Best thing I could have bought.

[mlytle]

i am stopping at the rv dealer on the way out there to buy a rooftop a/c for the trailer.....

[spnkzss]

i am stopping at the rv dealer on the way out there to buy a rooftop a/c for the trailer.....
[/b]

I retract my previous statement about the cool suit being the best thing I bought for racing. THe rooftop A/C unit for the trailer was the best thing I bought.

[JamesB]

I cannot do rooftop AC, my trailer doesnt have a roof!!! But 90's wont bother me outside the car, but last july inside the car was not good for me. I came off track and luckilly a friend saw I was overheated and got a cold wet towel on me till my head stopped floating.

[mlytle]

i am stopping at the rv dealer on the way out there to buy a rooftop a/c for the trailer.....
[/b]

got it installed for the weekend but big dissappointment. worked fine on saturday, but gave up the ghost on sunday when it got real hot. output temp from a/c was 70deg. barely kept the trailer at 85deg. not cold. bummer. for reference, it is a 13,500 btu colman mach ps model.

[BRAD BARNHOUSE]

I understand the region is looking at the race gouping ITR,ITS,ITA. Hopefully changes will come soon. The race for 5th in ITA had an ITS car in between that would not give it up. On the 15th lap of a 16 lap race an ITR car got between me an the ITS, and ITA car I was chasing,taking me out of the race on the last lap. I miss racing with ITB.
Brad

[mlytle]

I understand the region is looking at the race gouping ITR,ITS,ITA. Hopefully changes will come soon. The race for 5th in ITA had an ITS car in between that would not give it up. On the 15th lap of a 16 lap race an ITR car got between me an the ITS, and ITA car I was chasing,taking me out of the race on the last lap. I miss racing with ITB.
Brad
[/b]

no, the region is not looking at the itr/s/a race grouping. there are no changes coming. it is, in fact, working quite well. the leaders from all three classes are on the same lap for the checker, so the class leaders are not being disturbed/lapped by other classes.

i am the itr/its drivers rep and i speak with the ita drivers rep regularly to make sure we know what is going on between the classes. if you have an issue with an its/itr car, make sure you tell gregg. he already told me about the its car i think you are refering to (vw?) and an errant/slow rx7 and i will speak with the drivers. we do not want inter-class racing.

and since i was the only itr car that finished, must be me you are talking about. if i got between you and someone else while i was lapping you, it was not intended and i am positive i wasn't there long. how did i take you out of the race?

marshall

[BRAD BARNHOUSE]

Thanks Marshall for your explanation. It is true that the ITS VW held me up. I would'nt have been lapped on your last lap. I was along side him going into 10. If he would have let me have that corner I would have been gone. I was hoping for more time to catch Matt but I was behind you when you took the checker. I guess I just need to go faster.
Brad

[spnkzss]

Thanks Marshall for your explanation. It is true that the ITS VW held me up. I would'nt have been lapped on your last lap. I was along side him going into 10. If he would have let me have that corner I would have been gone. I was hoping for more time to catch Matt but I was behind you when you took the checker. I guess I just need to go faster.
Brad
[/b]

As a none ITA driver (spectator with friends in ITA) I have to agree that ITR needs to be removed from the ITA group. There is no reason any of the top 10 should be lapped especially with how competitive ITA is. ESPECIALLY when there are only 1 or 2 cars in that class. 1 or 2 cars causing 16 other cars to lose their last lap. I also find it hard to swallow when the ITR cars are running high 1:25s and the AS guys are running low 1:27s.

As for the ITA race for 5th, there were 4 if not 5 cars running in a line with an ITS car in the middle, for most of the race. They were racing for position when Marshall came through the carasel on his last lap, passed all but the last ITA car in line before the checker. Yip had 16 laps, but the other 3 or 4 cars had their race ended prematurely.

The ITR times should also continue to drop as setup gets better since we are only 3 weekends into the year for "new" cars.

I will not speak for Gregg, but after talking with him, I find it hard to believe that the issue has been dropped. I don't know. Maybe things had been discussed between Marshall and Gregg and came to an agreement. I ahve not talked with Gregg since the weekend.

Again I will repeat, I am not an ITA driver and my opinion may not matter, but as a spectator I don't think it's cool for 1 or 2 cars to "own" a race like that unless it truly is awesome driving skill in a matched car/class.

YMMV
TFWIW

[JamesB]

Marshall you lapped all but the top 5 ITA cars, I seriously hope the competition comittee is looking into this.

[mlytle]

Marshall you lapped all but the top 5 ITA cars, I seriously hope the competition comittee is looking into this.
[/b]

the comp committee does not make changes to the run groups mid season unless there are some seriously dire incidents occuring, which there are not. we review run groups in the fall and decide on the format in january for the next year.

when its/r was in big bore the leaders were getting lapped twice by the gt1 cars, so not a lot of sympathy for part of a class getting lapped once. not trying to be flip here, it is an unfortunate consequence of how successfull the racing program is in the wdcr. lots of cars and not enough track time. there are other run groups where some entire classes get lapped by faster cars in the group. i speak with gregg at every event and at every monthly comp committee meeting to try to make the best of the arrangement we have. we had a long discussion about it last night.

and for marrs 4, sorry i kind of blew through on the last lap. i could have checked up and just followed y'all around for the last lap or two rather than passing, but i didn't realize how far up you were. it is racing and i am out there tryiing to go fast too, but with my competition sitting in the turn four tire wall, i could have reeled it in a bit. my apologies.

Thanks Marshall for your explanation. It is true that the ITS VW held me up. I would'nt have been lapped on your last lap. I was along side him going into 10. If he would have let me have that corner I would have been gone. I was hoping for more time to catch Matt but I was behind you when you took the checker. I guess I just need to go faster.
Brad
[/b]

ahhh! sorry!

don't we all need to go faster!

hmmm, give me the international signal for a bump draft and i will give ya push down the main straight next time!

[JamesB]

yes I know, I been hearing the same sob story since 2001 when I was working rather then driving, victim of our own sucess, yet 6 years later its the same story. So I am sure it will work out on its own, but just like 2 gt1 cars killing your race short, 2 ITR cars killing the top 10 ITA race isnt all that great either. Heck I dont even race ITA, but I enjoy a good race and when 1-2 ITR cars cut the more entertaining race short it sucks. I never felt that way with ITS in big bore though as the top 3 where the only good racing going on (top 2 this past weekend.)

[spnkzss]

Playing devil's advocate. Marshall I agree the ITS/Big Bore thing sucked. I agree someone has to suffer somewhere because of how well the WDCR is supported and subscribed. What I don't agree with is 2 cars running a field like that. ITA is always pretty well subscribed. 20+ damn near 100%. Why should they suffer for 2 cars. I understand that nobody wins in either situation, but you have to look at which situation hurts "less". I'm sure it wouldn't be as big a deal if there were ~10 ITR cars. Hopefully there will be sooner than later, but for now it just doesn't seem to make sense.

My understanding was that the comp committee would be looking at the ITR/ITS/ITA grouping after MARRS 4. That was decided at the beginning of the year. Since I was/am not involved, I am just repeating a rumor.

[BRAD BARNHOUSE]

In all fairness, I got in trouble at the drop of the green. The yellow Miata failed to launch, and I had to push him all the way to the brake zone. Apparently he made a 2nd to 5th shift. He did apologize afterwards. Meanwhile I was passed by several cars on the right. I got some positions back early, but could only get as far as the ITS car. This allowed three in class cars to repass me. Once again, I got by them and back to the ITS car. I was faster through turns six-eight,but his VR6 had legs on the front straight. I don't know if I could have changed the out come,but I was'nt ready to quit. I just about wore out a new front bumper cover. A bad race at S.P. is still some of the best racing there is.
Brad

[JamesB]

Brad you never did answer the Cheif Steward if you had anything to say about Friday!!! The look on your face was classic.

[Gregg]

I'm going to keep this short because I have not had a chance to inform the ITA drivers on our list. As many of you know, I made my way around the paddock over the weekend to get everyone's feelings (again) on the ITR "thing." I honestly didn't think there was going to be much of a chance from when we discussed this in our forum post-MARRS 1.

This issue was discussed after the meeting last night. I don't have a results sheet with me, but although the ITA cars up to fifth place were lapped at least once (only one car was lapped twice), there were a very large number of cars on the lead lap, just as there were 11 (almost 1/3) at MARRS 1. There is no doubt in my mind that there would have been more cars on the lead lap if the previously mentioned ITS driver hadn't been such an issue for soooooooo long.

Also, on a whim, I decided to look at MARRS 4 last year (ITA/7/...Out of 28 finishers, two were two laps down and five were one lap down. I don't remember the ITB drivers complaining last year. That said, there were a number of factors last weekend that may have skewed how "fast" the overall winner finished the race. He had no competition for most of the race and may have dispatched with more cars if he was being pressured.

Finally, where do you suggest we put them? Big Bore I presume....that's the grouping where most, in not all, of the AS cars always finish 2 laps down. Move ITR and they will be one-to-two laps down as well. Let me tell you something, Rob, Brad, James, and everyone else...If I bring this up, after just two races, it's gonna get shot down. I guarantee it. Not without more data. And do you think that the reps that either (1) almost had their classes removed from the MARRS series over the winter, (2) had to drive w/ ITS in Big Bore last year, (3) are seeing their race lengths shortened due to participation levels or (4) saw over 80% of their drivers finish two laps down to the overall winner from another class are going to have any compassion when discussion / decision time comes around? Not very likely.

Let me state this for all of you to see....I would like to see the ITR cars in another run group....There, I said it. Unfortunately there just isn't a strong enough argument for doing it today.