Lime Rock...

[Andy Bettencourt]

On an interesting sidenote, if I am speculating correctly, Mr Bettencourts car didn't start in grid without a bump start. And if he has no fan on the car, he could not leave it idling during the black flag all in the pits. IF the race had restarted, there was a chance he might not have been able to rejoin without outside assistance, which means that....Richie would have won.

But, the race was never restarted, so that bullet was dodged.

This is all speculation, as I don't know if he has a fan or not, and if the no start condition fixed itself when running.
[/b]

My car has a wierd hot-start problem but this wasn't it. My alternator light wasn't on but it was starting to 'glow' and the car might have been running on battery alone. It didn't want to idle and I was very concerned I would finish. Above 3K rpm it was fine. I have both OEM fans in the car so I never had to shut her down while under red or under black in the pits. I would have been fine for a restart because I never shut the car off. The car was just coming in and ready to rock and roll when the incident stopped action.I am guessing a low 1:02 was in the cards under the warmer conditions.

Glad all are ok. I don't mind losing track time in the name of safty because one day that will be me who needs to be 'saved'.

Big ups to the Doc...it's amazing how much HP you can find in the corners when you get a real set-up!

[RKramden]

On an interesting sidenote, if I am speculating correctly, Mr Bettencourts car didn't start in grid without a bump start. And if he has no fan on the car, he could not leave it idling during the black flag all in the pits. IF the race had restarted, there was a chance he might not have been able to rejoin without outside assistance, which means that....Richie would have won.
[/b]

No-one won the race. It never made it to half distance, hence there are no winners, no trophies, and no points.

[dickita15]

dave, didn't it finish on time?

[Andy Bettencourt]

No-one won the race. It never made it to half distance, hence there are no winners, no trophies, and no points. [/b]

Half the 'distance' was more than 10 minutes...

[Jeremy Billiel]

OK everyone... Here it is!

The videos that everyone wants to laugh at...

Please remember that constructive criticism would be helpful as this is only my 3rd race. In the uphill I was using 4th gear, but its doooogs... I need to just go faster.

I got hosed on the start, but I have a couple of good passes here and there.

Video 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-lENUxMnKU
Video 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5yFZo0JxU

[lateapex911]

DId I hear the silver Honda driver called to the tower after the race? Was there any sanction or a talk with the Stewards after the incident, or.............???? Or are the comments and witness reports exagerated?

[dickita15]

I heard the Honda driver was interviewed by the chief steward. I did not hear of anything further.

[RKramden]

Half the 'distance' was more than 10 minutes...
[/b]

No, the time factor does not apply for half the race unless it is a timed race ONLY, like the 3 hours race for RAL weekend, which would be official after 1.5 hours in the event of it being stopped (like for a massive thunder storm.)

Red Flag was at just under 9 minutes. IIRC, 11m:10s remaining on my clock (and the Starter keeps the official time.) I remember commenting to the other starters that it wasn't an official race.

The race is only shortened IF it goes over the 20 minute mark AND the leader hasn't started his last lap. If the leader crosses S/F with just one second remaining on the clock, the everyone gets another full lap. The final lap has to be started before the time limit. This actually happens a lot more than you would think.

When there is a red flag, the race is also backed off to the last completed lap, so officially, only 5 laps were completed, 2 short of half distance.

[RSTPerformance]

Sounds like an interesting weekend... I am glad that everyone is ok from the accidents.

Couple questions...

Why wasn't the ITA race re-started?

And most importantly any results for the ITB field?

Raymond

[Andy Bettencourt]

Anyone with the official results that were printed out have an official 'time of race' or 'total time' for us? I would have thought the official results would have mentioned something about nothing counting and no legal finishers should that have been the case...and the obvious question comes up, if there are no winners, no trophies and no points - do we get a refund? Doubt it.

For the record, we did get trophies...and I am 99% sure the results showed an official finishing order with a winner and fast lap. I just don't look at them for irregularities...

Ray, here is what happened from my seat:

1. local yellow

2. fcy

3. red flag

4. black flag all

5. 1 minute to go from pit lane

6. 'shut them down' suggestion from pit lane workers

7. chequered flag while in pit lane at about the 15 minute mark

8. impound top 3

9. top 3 weighed and released

10. official results posted with finishing order

11. Trophies handed out

The race was not restarted due to cleanup that needed to be done to keep the schedule moving. Group 4 (SM - ITA was in G2) had no FCY's, yet was inexplicable shortened to 10 laps. Litterally, when the 5 lap to go countdown on the scoreboard hit, the chequered came out and the numbers went 5-4-3-2-1 in 2 seconds. The rest of the races were 15 laps.

[RKramden]

6.7.5. Shortened Races
A. If a race is stopped at less than fifty (50) percent of it’s scheduled time or distance and is not restarted, it shall be considered incomplete. Championship points shall not be awarded, and organizers shall not be required to distribute trophies or other awards.

"SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED". e.g. they may do it, but don't have to. But, no points (and no credit for running a race on your license.)


The clock is stopped when the red flag is called for.

If the results put out by T&S have some other time, then they are in error. T&S does not keep the official time for the race, Start does.

[jpvonoy]

I was pretty disappointed to only get 3 laps of racing; I felt a little ripped off. However, I really feel bad for the driver of the 7 car and I'm glad we were red flagged for the sake of the workers and drivers involved in the wreck. Just seems like we had plenty of time for a restart. If I remember correctly, by the end of the day, all the race groups were done by approx. 5:15. BWDIK, I'm new to all of this. I looked quickly in the GCR, but didn't see anything about refunds or the lack thereof. Are there any rules about that, especially if the race is considered incomplete?

On a positive note, it was so nice to have the workers bring out nice cold waters for all the drivers as we waited in pit lane

[Andy Bettencourt]

6.7.5. Shortened Races
A. If a race is stopped at less than fifty (50) percent of it's scheduled time or distance and is not restarted, it shall be considered incomplete. Championship points shall not be awarded, and organizers shall not be required to distribute trophies or other awards.

"SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED". e.g. they may do it, but don't have to. But, no points (and no credit for running a race on your license.)


The clock is stopped when the red flag is called for.

If the results put out by T&S have some other time, then they are in error. T&S does not keep the official time for the race, Start does. [/b]

I am all for what is fair. Just trying to learn.

[b]And are you saying that we don&#39;t even get credit for a start? Then we ARE entitled to a refund I would think. I don&#39;t know anyone who was thinking that but given this new info that the race may not have counted...</span></span></span></span>

Again, just learning. An anomoly like this happens every year and its fun to explore the hapenings. Bottom line, everyone was ok and THAT is what is important. I left my offical results in the tow vehicle and I am trying to track them down. I know Joe must have them for his contingency submittal!</span>

[Jeremy Billiel]

Again, just learning. An anomoly like this happens every year and its fun to explore the hapenings. Bottom line, everyone was ok and THAT is what is important. I left my offical results in the tow vehicle and I am trying to track them down. I know Joe must have them for his contingency submittal![/size][/font]
[/b]

Crazy Joe had them alright... That 3rd place 3 lap race was worth $200 bucks in Hancook bucks!

[Andy Bettencourt]

I&#39;m new to all of this. I looked quickly in the GCR, but didn&#39;t see anything about refunds or the lack thereof. Are there any rules about that, especially if the race is considered incomplete?
[/b]

If Dave is correct that we get no credit for a start...I would think so. If we get no credit for a start, did the &#39;race&#39; actually happen? Was it &#39;cancelled&#39;? Interesting read on the terms...I don&#39;t think it&#39;s appropriate to not distribute credit for a start and not consider the race cancelled. At the very least, we should get a start credit, no refund and no points. Not super excited about that but it is what it is! Again, we need a read on the official &#39;total time&#39;...I just can&#39;t remember what the sheet said...dang!</span>

[Marcus Miller]

What about NARRC / NERRC points and the rules about having to run at x number of tracks during the year?

(West Coaster, but I remember you guys have some funky bonus points for travelling away from home)


:026:
Marcus

[Andy Bettencourt]

What about NARRC / NERRC points and the rules about having to run at x number of tracks during the year?

(West Coaster, but I remember you guys have some funky bonus points for travelling away from home)


:026:
Marcus [/b]

The rules say that you must qualify OR start to get credit toward double points. So interestingly, according to Dave, we could all get credit for &#39;attending&#39; for the NARRC points chase, yet at the same time, get no offical start for licensing purposes.

[Marcus Miller]

The rules say that you must qualify OR start to get credit toward double points. So interestingly, according to Dave, we could all get credit for &#39;attending&#39; for the NARRC points chase, yet at the same time, get no offical start for licensing purposes.
[/b]

Nice!

Back to lurking,
Marcus

[Tkczecheredflag]

Andy - I am looking at the sheet and there is no mention of "official time". There are other referrences to time but no referrence to racing time.

[RKramden]

Andy,

T&S cannot provide the time requirements for Start on a "timely" basis. Starters have to do this for themselves. We don&#39;t time the laps (T&S does that), but we do keep the time for the length of the sessions. If we had to ask T&S for an "official time", we would need to call the stewards on the F&C radio, have them ask T&S on the Race Administration radio, and then get an answer back via the reverse path. Way to inaccurate.

The starter has to display the checkered flag on the correct lap, and it can be a real guessing game if the time limit is being reached and the distance hasn&#39;t been covered. More than once, the decision to checker a race on a given lap based on time has come down to a matter of seconds (e.g. less than 1 or 2 seconds).

At tracks like NHIS, the timing line is in front of the timing building in turn 4, and the T&S people don&#39;t really know when the race starts and ends. Officially, the first lap starts when you cross the S/F line and ends at the timing line. Hence the line in the supps that the first lap will not be used for setting fastest lap or track records. At that track, the Starter also scores the final lap for T&S and we call T&S to tell them if there were any position changes between the timing loop and the S/F line.

At Lime Rock, the timing loop isn&#39;t at the S/F line either, but it is only a few ( less than 12) feet past the line so the error is small. However, there have been times where the first car to the S/F line was not the first car to be picked up by the timing loop. (Hint: Keep your transponder as near the front of the car as you can...)

As far as when the race was red flagged, the timing system MAY have the time fairly close, but it is a case of them being told that race was stopped and then the computer system being "adjusted" to reflect what is needed. (Yes, I spent a year in T&S running one of those computers when I had bad knees). Start stops a clock when the Steward calls for the red flag. (I say "A" clock, because we normally have three or four clocks running. If there is a red or black flag all, we stop one and keep another going.)

As far as the list of required equipment goes, you will find there are lots of useless things (equipment) required, and lots of things that are required to do the job that are not listed. The GCR isn&#39;t "up to date", and hasn&#39;t been for years. (see 5.5 for the list for each flag station.) Any request to the CRB to have those parts of it updated falls on deaf ears. For example, you may note that there is no mention of a number board, a "sound" board, a "1" sign, a "pace car" sign, an "ALL" sign for "Black flag all", or the requirements that we have pencils (to do lap charts), paper, a clip board or two, or any of the dozens of other things needed to do the job. The list is neither all inclusive or exclusive.

Of course, at a drivers school, I time sessions with my sundial.