June Fastrack

[Chris Wire]

I'm no hater!

I've raced SM before and had a ball! They're a great car to drive, and in CFR a good bunch of folks to run with.

I too, am on record not opposed to a RP spec line allowance, but the rest of the stuff should be IT legal.

[shwah]

Chris,

Compromising the IT rules is the main crux of the issue but I could go back and quote a myriad of posts that bitch about how much track time a Miata can already get - you would be in the minority in not caring that Miata's had '6 classes to race'. THAT is at the core of the Miata-hating.
[/b]

I guess you see what you want to see. I must have dismissed most of those comments because they were not rational arguments. You likely noticed them because you are a Miata owner/driver.

I still don't think that is the major point of opposition.

[Greg Amy]

Compromising the IT rules is the main crux of the issue...[/b]

I agree with you on this.

...but I could go back and quote a myriad of posts that bitch about how much track time a Miata can already get...[/b]

Because that is being held out as the primary (sole?) reason for compromising the IT rule set in favor of the Spec Miatas.

If not that reason, then what? And, therefore, is that reason not fair game when debating whether our ruleset should be compromised?

...you would be in the minority in not caring that Miata's had '6 classes to race'. THAT is at the core of the Miata-hating.[/b]

I really, really doubt you'll find a lot of people that give two shakes that Miatas can race in numerous groups. Any IT car can race in SPU, D Prepared, and ITE, right? So, it's not like "they" have opportunities that "we" do not.

The root of the matter is that one group's rules integrity is being compromised solely to accommodate a different discrete group. If that motivation goes away, so does the conflict. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

I really, really doubt you'll find a lot of people that give two shakes that Miatas can race in numerous groups. Any IT car can race in SPU, D Prepared, and ITE, right? So, it's not like "they" have opportunities that "we" do not.

[/b]

Then why, on May 19th, before the FT came out were you a 'Miata disliker'? Just curious...maybe it's just me in my car...

Shwah, Just because the comments were irrational doesn't mean they weren't stated - or people don't think like that. Lot's of people listed 'they don't need another place to run' as a beef. No matter, Monday's con call will get this all fixed.

[Greg Amy]

Yes, Andy, it's all about you.

Anything in that post you'd care to comment, disagree, or agree with?

Off to Summit for the 12 hour...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Yes, Andy, it's all about you.[/b]

Seriously Greg, why are you and your circle 'dislikers' if track time isn't an issue? at's not to like about SM - or are you not seperating SM's from ITA cars (or one in particular)?

Anything that post you'd care to comment, disagree, or agree with?

[/b]

I didn't comment on your second quote because I didn't really get what you were saying. We all know the main issue is the 'integrity' of the rules, but I was challenging an assertion that 'nobody' cared about how much track time SM get/can get, because that distain is all over this thread.

Like I said, Monday night this will be taken care of. Just trying to figure out if we wipe it clean or if we propose a line-item on the RP's. Your thoughts on that?

[shwah]

We are getting pretty far off topic, but one reason for some IT drivers not being big Miata fans is frustration over 'faster' SM cars being the most common vehicle that impedes their progress in qualifying and race sessions. Some have less memory of the times that we ourselves have been in the way of other fast cars, and get frustrated that the same kind of car is 'always' in their way.

It is just part of the reality of a really popular class - that means there are more underprepped and underdriven cars, just like there are more top prepped and top driven cars. Although the latter likely spends more time with the National crowd.

[IPRESS]

Andy, Unless I am missing something, I don't see the RP being a problem at all. Most SM 1.8 crossovers that I know about pull the RP already. It takes about two minutes to do. If any of the rules are a problem I think it is the steering rack. there are a ton of SMs with converted racks. (Cheap fix.) Even the 1.6 added bars can be dropped at the track. Probably a 5 minute job with a power tool.
I am not against the RP line, but I really don't see it being all that needed. The rack situation is more of a problem spot.
Oh and send the 99s back to ITS.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, Unless I am missing something, I don't see the RP being a problem at all. Most SM 1.8 crossovers that I know about pull the RP already. It takes about two minutes to do. If any of the rules are a problem I think it is the steering rack. there are a ton of SMs with converted racks. (Cheap fix.) Even the 1.6 added bars can be dropped at the track. Probably a 5 minute job with a power tool.
I am not against the RP line, but I really don't see it being all that needed. The rack situation is more of a problem spot.
Oh and send the 99s back to ITS. [/b]

Maybe it's a regional culture issue. None of the 1.8's I know of up here swap out RP's. The 2-3hp just doesn't put them any closer to the front so it's not a perceived need, but like you said, you CAN get it done.

[gran racing]

BTW, In addition to their piss-poor service and products that did not work (all while telling me I didn't know what I was talking about), Puskar/Carbotech never made good on the contingency they owe me from the ARRC 2006, so take their sponsorship offers with a BIG grain of salt.[/b]

While this thread has nothing to do with Carbotech itself, I do have to say that I’ve found them to be an awesome company to work with. I primarily work with Chris Puskar, and he’s always been more than willing to provide advice and assistance. He’s also been know to make visits to various tracks, walk the paddock and speak with existing Carbotech customers to see if there’s anything they can do to further help. I’ve seen him on a few occasions at Lime Rock speaking with IT drivers including myself. Back to the original topic…

I also don't understand why this got personal, and why you guys find it easy to be a Miata hater (does that mean you're a Miata driver hater?).[/b]

I can see how people get this perception, but it really is related to more of a spec class of cars racing in a non-spec class than towards SM. What I mean by this is in a spec class, in order for cars to make passes it often means they make more aggressive attempts. In IT, maybe my car has better brakes than the next car so I use that to my advantage. The other car has more power than mine, so they use that to their advantage. Things are fairly equal in SM, drivers obviously know this. When some SM drivers come and race with IT, they still have this mindset and sometimes it causes issues.

So why not allow the Regions to solve their problems, or better put, make the best of their oppurtunity??[/b]

I was a bit surprised when I mentioned this a few pages back (post 180) no one really had much to say about the idea. I spoke with Andy about it on the side, and there are some positives about the idea as well as some draw backs.

[gsbaker]

Like I said, Monday night this will be taken care of.[/b]

Good. As we all know long, contentious threads should be reserved for head and neck restraint discussions.

[IPRESS]

Dave,
I also have had great service from the Carbotech folks. They seem to be at a lot of places across the country.

Mac

[mattbatson]

they're also the best brake pads you can buy....

I had the impression there was definitely more to this than I was aware of...from the very beginning...

I understand the whole "principal" of the thing. Our class rule structure...blah blah blah.

But, it seemed like it was far more then this, and it wasnt being said.

Now, I have had just as many "incidences" with SM's as anyone. Aside from contact on the track and interfering in qualifying...pretty much all of my on track happenings have been with the little mazda convertible....

But, hey, it's better then driving around the track by yourself

I take it as an opportunity to learn racecraft. Learning how to pass in different parts of the track and how to race in a tight group without contact...it's all good.
Besides...if your in ITA, you should only see them after about 5 or so laps