Get your IT7 spec tires NOW - here's where

[instigator]

For those who have forgotten, in atlanta in 2006 February race the spec tire rule was removed due to a rule descrepensy and done so by the SOM, another thing to look at is that I can assure you appilation tire would not just stop selling a tire unless their was a reason, (they're in buisnees to sell tires of which they purchased the franchies to do so), please also look at the fact that no one during this whole process went to toyo to get a guarantee that there would be a sufficant amount of tires for this class as spec miata learned in its early attempt to create a spec tire rule. Given these facts the som had to act on the best choice for the members of this class. Another thing to take into consideration is that this rule was also presented to the competition board on the fact that there would be track support for the tire by a franchies carrier, and easily available. Rather than grip and or complain lets find a way to resolve this by contacting your adhoc committee members, regional executavies, and other IT7 drivers to come up with a temporay fix. As I under stand this is a tempory shortage, and lets be alittle more receptive to those who race the same type of car not just through them into another class remember IT7 can be removed as a class altogether. WE need numbers to keep any class going look at GT4 and GT5 now GTL. Remember if this temporary shortage turns into a extensive shortage there will be no IT7's due to this tire rule and based on this we all need to come up with a solution for not just these current events but future ones as well.

Concerned IT7 member & Adhoc committee member for IT7
Kurt A Jackson Car #00 & 59

[tlyttle43]

Thank You, Ginny Condrey! Your notice saved me writing another e-mail, to the stewards.

It's good to see the VIR SARRC/MARRS stewards are thinking ahead on our problem and won't make a hasty, unwarranted decision ot simply scrap the spec tire rule. Since nearly everyone has the required tire, and those who need them do have options (even if they are less ideal that getting them at the track), there is NO reason to waive the rule. Since the IT7 racers are aware of the problem and have a way to get around it, the rules shouldn't be dropped and the balance in the class messed up (if someone who has Toyos runs something faster instead). Don't so what the Roabling stewards did and screw up everyone else to benefit the one person who wasn't prepared - as has been suggested, let him run ITA or borrow the spec tire.

From my discussions with the various Toyo race tire dealers, this situation should get straightened out fairly soon, but it really does depend on Toyo getting caught up on their deliveries. Appalachian says they won't have our tire until late May at best and it could be well into June. I hope this is a one-shot deal, because being able to get the tires at the track is by far the best option. I would hate to have to reconsider the tire rule because of repeated supply issues.

Tom Lyttle

[sgallimo]

For those who have forgotten, in atlanta in 2006 February race the spec tire rule was removed due to a rule descrepensy and done so by the SOM ...snip...[/b]

Yes Kurt, I'm equally baffled by that decision as the copy of the IT-7 Spec Tire rules that was on the SEDIV website at that time clearly indicated what "our" wet and "our" dry tire choices were.

I've been told, on several occasions, that the framers of the IT-7 Spec Tire Rule had discussed tire choices with Appalachian Tire and had their full support for our use of the Toyo tire.

I don't see how we can say the Roebling SOM acted in the best interest of the class because they were reacting to one competitor at the expense of the others. Those competitors signed up for an IT-7 race. Each had the option of signing up for an IT-A race and they chose not to do so. Let me say that again, each of those IT-7 drivers "chose" to enter an IT-7 race. The region promised them an IT-7 race but cancelled it after accepting their money. What's a better term for that type of situation "bait and switch" or "fraud"??

As the posters to this thread have pointed out, there are many sources for our spec tire. Simply showing up at the track and expecting to find them without any prior notification is not one of them. And neither of those two points are new. Appalachian Tire has always been consistent and up-front about their need for prior notice to deliver Toyos at the track. Personally, I will continue to try to repay them for all of the help they've given me over the years by going to them first when I need tires. I can only assume that they will understand if I have to temporarily go elsewhere if they temporarily have more demand then they can fulfill.

The IT-7 numbers have been very, very strong this year. Looking at the entry list for VIR, the trend appears to be continuing. The class will remain strong and continue to grow as long as our adhoc committee members, Regional Executives, and other SEDIV officials continue to allow the class to be defined by the wants and desires (within the constraints of the GCR) of the majority of the IT-7 drivers.

[tom_sprecher]

The IT-7 numbers have been very, very strong this year. Looking at the entry list for VIR, the trend appears to be continuing. The class will remain strong and continue to grow as long as our adhoc committee members, Regional Executives, and other SEDIV officials continue to allow the class to be defined by the wants and desires (within the constraints of the GCR) of the majority of the IT-7 drivers.
[/b]

By the SARRC points numbers on the SEDiv website.

'05 - 65 IT7 drivers
'06 - 50 IT7 drivers
'07 - 32 IT7 drivers

Where's the growth?

In 2 years the class has been cut in half. I want to thank the adhoc committee members, Regional Executives, and other SEDIV officials for weeding out the competition so I can start this my racing hobby of mine with a chance to win. Look at who jumped ship after the spec tire rull to ITA and never came back and you'll understand what I mean. Other classes in the group got faster and we got slower. Who wants that? There are pros and cons to spec rules but in this case I think it's killing the class.

As far as true democracy and the majority ruling; it sounds good on paper but fails in practice. That's one reason this country was set up as a republic.

[sgallimo]

By the SARRC points numbers on the SEDiv website.

'05 - 65 IT7 drivers
'06 - 50 IT7 drivers
'07 - 32 IT7 drivers

Where's the growth?
[/b]

Unless the results for all of the races that will be held in 2007 have already been posted to the SEDIV website, you're comparing full year counts to a partial year count.

So, my mistake. I didn't mean to imply that I searched all of the posted results for the 2007 season or that I'm able to see the future. I should have said we seem to be having large turn outs at the events that I looked at. Didn't we have 18 IT-7 cars at Rockingham? Aren't there about 17 on the list for VIR this weekend? Is that less than the average race last year? If it is, then I'll retract my earlier statement.

Before we could attempt to drawl any conclusions [either way] about entry numbers, we would have to compare those trends to those in other classes. Tom's numbers show there were 15 less IT-7 drivers in 2006 than in 2005. How many of those 65 moved to another class? How many dropped out of racing? How many moved to another region? Were there any new drivers? Were the counts down or up in other classes? etc.

[tom_sprecher]

Yes, you are correct in that 2007 is not over by any means but my point was more that the trend is the class is shrinking not growing. With the loss of so many SARRC races this year for various reasons the season is almost half over. Hopefully there will be more IT7 racers coming online during the summer (myself included) and your perception is correct.

According to the SARRC points there were 11 IT7 cars at Rockingham. At CMP and Roebling there were 9. Historically those are not bad sized fields at all, so don't get me wrong, I just hope we are doing the right thing with the tire rule. Although some have the ability to move up to ITA and be extremely successful at it I would rather not have go that route too soon. Because I'm a lazy, self-centered SOB who really is only concerned with what's in it for me especially if there is instant gratification involved and really doesn't care about anybody else I'd rather see us classed in ITB.

Also, does anybody have a feel for why in the past IT7 had such a poor subscription in the ProIT Series to the point that the class is not longer eligible in 2007?

I almost forgot this.

-- where's Mattburg when you need him? [/b]

Let's try to be very careful what we wish for.

[instigator]

Numbers at certain events seem to be 1 or 2 higher other events have fallen to 0 no cars for the class and ther are easly 15 cars that I know nolonger run IT7 after the tire rulechang ,that was to be expected. the problem I would like us all to see is that the rule makers my not give us a chance to keep this rule if we do not come up with aback up plan for this rule not just for now but in the future. ,just to give a suggestion for a temporary solution instead of putting an IT7 in ITA lets make him give up his sarrc pionts ,but still race in IT7. Ibelive this is what concerns every one is the pionts involved for the invitational and chapionship. lets not exile a fellow competitor it might come to back fire on us in the future. he may out of good sportman ship change class, but he will feel better knowing he was given a choice. this rule may only be used durring such issues as a tire avalibilty problem. I know may of you will shot holes in this idea ,but just try to see this would hurt no one and be very helpfull in showing the governnig body that we are trying to keep our group together not split it up.



IT7 00 & 59
Kurt Jackson

[instigator]

Just to add the cheif stweard for the race at robeling recived a letter from appliation befor the event started and made his choice based on that. Presented that to the SOM's. Not what one competitor came to the track with. Please call the stweward or e-mail him as i am sure ther were several who also saw the letter. That letter is what got the rule relaxed for the evnt at robeling. If one copetitor has that power I can assure the rule would be abolished just that fast. Base on that I would say he acted in the best intrst of not just the class but the club.


Kurt

[grendel]

The class will remain strong and continue to grow as long as our adhoc committee members, Regional Executives, and other SEDIV officials continue to allow the class to be defined by the wants and desires (within the constraints of the GCR) of the majority of the IT-7 drivers.
[/b]

By the SARRC points numbers on the SEDiv website.

'05 - 65 IT7 drivers
'06 - 50 IT7 drivers
'07 - 32 IT7 drivers

Where's the growth?
[/b]

Interestng...

[papabear]

I am still having trouble finding shaved Toyo's. Any other suggestions on where to find? Everyone I have talked to says they are on backorder and it may be june before they get any.

[sgallimo]

Lots of things to cover.

Tom was correct, there were eleven IT-7 drivers at Rockingham -- in the SARRC race. Don't forget that there were also ECR and CCPS races. I don't have my entry lists in front of me but here are 16 names culled from the various on-line results places. I couldn't find a copy of the ECR entry list, so there may be one or two co-drivers that I missed.
1 Rodney Alston CCPS
2 Justin Deffenbaugh CCPS
3 Rex Deffenbaugh SARRC
4 Wallace Dew ECR/CCPS
5 Scott Gallimore SARRC/CCPS
6 Gary L Gentry SARRC
7 Charles Hines SARRC/CCPS
8 James Jandrisevits ECR/CCPS
9 Grover McNair SARRC/ECR
10 Robert Mitchell SARRC/ECR/CCPS
11 Paul Perez SARRC/CCPS
12 Heather Powers SARRC/ECR/CCPS
13 Michael Spencer SARRC/CCPS
14 Blair Stitt SARRC/CCPS
15 Ricky Thompson ECR
16 Danny Van Fleet SARRC

Joe Ippolito (spelling?) was also entered but dropped out due to an engine issue (I believe). Darned if I can remember who the other person was....

Here are the 18 that are currently on the list for VIR:
1 ALLISON-MIKE
2 ALSTON-RODNEY
3 ASMAN-MICHAEL
4 DEFFENBAUGH-JUSTIN
5 DEFFENBAUGH-REX
6 GALLIMORE-SCOTT
7 GENTRY-GARY
8 GUELDNER-NEIL
9 HENSLEE-JOSEPH
10 HESS-JAMES
11 HINES-CHUCK
12 LYTTLE-TOM
13 MCNAIR-GROVER
14 MITCHELL-ROBERT
15 POWERS-HEATHER
16 RYAN-JEFFREY
17 SCHEFER-OWEN
18 STITT-BLAIR

Kurt, you mentioned the notion of letting folks run without the spec tire if they waived their SARRC points. Since IT-7 and IT-A are in the same run group, wouldn't that have the same results as having them run in IT-A? In both cases they would be running with the same competitors, be gridded in the same place, and be in the same position in the overall finishing order. Hmm, does waiving your SARRC points impact your ability to receive a trophy?

Regarding a letter from Appalachian Tire to the SOM. The existence of such a letter simply magnifies the poor judgement on the part of the Stewards. While Appalachian Tire may be my personal first choice when spending my tire dollars, as evidenced by the posts in this thread, they are not the only supplier of the Toyo tires. It is the responsibility of each competitor to arrive at the grid with all of the proper gear. I do not see Appalachian Tire listed as holding any offices in the Southeast Division of the SCCA (as listed on the www.sedivracing.org website). Therefore, I don't seem them as being involved in the policy making within our class, our division, or our club.

I have a letter from my mother that states that I won the IT-7 race at that Roebling event. Should I forward that letter to the SOM so that they can arrange for delivery of my trophy? Will I have to then send a second letter to Mort Stern to get the SARRC points adjusted or will that be taken care of automatically? I don't want to be flippant, but a letter from my mother carries as much weight as this letter from Appalachian Tire that Kurt references.

Papabear, it's awfully late to be looking but are you saying that you had previously checked with all of the 5 or 6 alternative sources listed in this thread and they were all sold out?

[instigator]

Sgallimo I guess you still do not get it the governing body of the club makes an abundant of decesion on the importance of the club members best interest, NOT defending what happend in savanna, but you seem to be make this personal instead of viewing this from a amiture club racing stand point all you referance to is key word , ( I !!!) ,so with that said . step back look at this from another stand point and start looking at this as something we will have to address or ther will be no IT7 if this shortage continues. perhaps you want it to were you are the only one with a supply of toyos and the only one to run IT7 and get the championship. remember numbers keep classes alive. Another competitor just showed you the aformentioned suppliers who said they had tires are out. As I stated some one would make an attempt to shot holes in my Idea. so I ask you give an idea that would include every IT7 owner as a group that would be atempory solution by not hurting the numbers and if the trophie means so much to you the ask them to wave ther rights to it to.I guess personal gratification is your only reason to race rather than enjoy your time behind the wheel with freinds around you, remeber this is for fun if your are that seriuos about racing go pro and then lets see your expendetures. look alot of the members of the IT7 family do not like this problem ,but rather than fight it lets make a solution to fix it until this problem goes away or we may be forced by the governing body to do something we all disapprove.


IT7 family lets hear some ideas. That is all I ask.

sgallimo your count for rockingham is at least 1 driver off Kurt A Jackson COdriver ECR IT7 00

Kurt Jackson IT7 00 & 59

[grendel]

You mentioned a "tire shortage." What evidence is there to suggest this?

[papabear]

I will say that there appears to be a tire shortage or at least a limited availability of tires in the SE region. I finally found a set of tires after calling 6 different vendors. I used my own resources and also those listed on this web page. Edge Racing actually has some in stock but they are not shaved and it is getting more difficult to find a local tire shop to shave tires. I want to play by the rules and run IT7, but it is getting difficult when so much time is spent searching for supplies that should be readily available.

To sgallimo,
No I do not think I am waiting late to start looking for tires. I started looking for tires May 1st for an end of May race. I am trying to make the event at CMP not VIR. I would think a 4 week lead time is sufficient.

All of the vendors I talked with over the last few days were very helpful, but none of them saw any relief until some time in June. Thanks to all vendors for helping me find a set of shaved tires.

[NutDriverRighty]

IM(not so humble)O, signing-up for IT7 (a spec tire class, as voted on by the members of IT7 who had raced the previous season) and then coming to the track without the required tires is like coming to the track without your driver's suit, helmet, etc. If Tim (or another equipment supplier) isn't there, you're screwed. Appalachian focuses on Hoosiers. If you've been around for more than this season, you know this very well. They (IMO) carry the Toyos simply for those of us who run IT7. It is not a major profit center for them and I would expect that it isn't a major focus for them week-to-week. If you come to the track to find that you don't have the tires that you need, change to ITA. I know that I can get more races out my Toyos than I ever could out of my Hoosiers. Not that the Toyos are faster (or even as fast), but they do last much longer and are much more consistent through groups of heat cycles. A set of last season's RA1s are not going to put you as far back in the IT7 field as trying to run a set of last year's Hoosier's in ITA. Grab a new set of Hoosiers, bite the bullet, and deal with the situation as best you can. Lord knows that Ricky and the rest of the Rx7 ITA contingent would love to see their mirrors filled with another Rx7! We also know that we could cease to have our own class in the future and end-up being "also-rans" in ITA.
I wasn't at Roebling and this didn't effect me directly, but I have to agree with Kurt in that we need to act in the best interest of the class. Since I wasn't there, I'm am leary of commenting on the SOMs decision. On the surface, it sounds as it could have been handled differently. However, we must keep in mind that the SCCA is a club run by volunteers. We are not professionals (as much as most of us would like to be). This is supposed to be fun, folks. I, for one, will stop racing/corner working/whatever when it fails to be fun anymore. If I make the 5 hour haul from my house to Roebling to find that I don't have the tires I need, I'll get what I can and have as much fun as I can. If that isn't good enough for me, I guess I'll turn my butt around and go home.

Scott Franklin
IT7 and SPU (and ITA, if I've gotta!)
F&C

[sgallimo]

...if the trophie means so much to you ... I guess personal gratification is your only reason to race ... if your are that seriuos about racing go pro ...[/b]

Wow Kurt, you really had me going there for awhile. For a few minutes, I thought you were seriously questioning my motives and my contribution and dedication to the club. You have to start using smiley faces or something.

I fully admit that I have a personal agenda. I want the class to be defined by the people that created it - the IT-7 drivers. I'm opposed to anyone who attempts to change that definition in a manner that does not involve accurately polling the full membership of the class. Likewise, I fully support the right of any valid "member of the class" to get their proposals for rule changes in front of the entire class membership. Of course there are higher authorities, like the GCR and the National Office, that get the first stab at the class rules. I'm not talking about that aspect of our class rules.

With regards to the spec tire rule in general, as I've indicated in the past, I did not vote in the original spec tire ballot as I was not running in the class at that time. I run Toyos now because that's what the rules stipulate. I'm not saying I voted for or against the Toyo in last months vote. My personal vote doesn't apply to these conversations. I defend the tire rule because the full membership selected that rule. If the class membership votes to change to a different spec tire or to change to an open tire, I'll follow that new rule. And I'll support the right of any valid "member of the class" to request a change to that new rule. I do have to say that I've only raced on the Toyos as I joined IT-7 after the spec tire rule was in place and I used them on my IT-C car (based on the input from the car builder).

With regards to what happened at Roebling, I'm making the same point as Kurt. The governing body is supposed to make decisions based on the interests of the class. The point that is being missing is that, based on the information we were given, no one has shown that there was a problem that warranted any action. We have been told that Appalachian Tire said they have a shortage. Since then, 5 or 6 other stores have said they don't have a shortage. We were told that one competitor did not arrange to have tires before arriving at Roebling. The other competitors managed to do so. Those facts don't support the claim that our spec tire is unavailable to our competitors. Please show me that the problem actually exists.

Another competitor just showed you the aformentioned suppliers who said they had tires are out.
[/b]

No. That other competitor had only stated that all of the places that he had looked were out of stock. He did NOT indicate where he had looked nor that he had looked at all of the places that have been suggested in this thread (that's why I asked him).

Now, I only mentioned the trophy aspect because that might be a reason for a person deciding to run in IT-7 without points as opposed to running in IT-A. As I said, moving to IT-A wouldn't affect overall starting or finishing position but it might affect the distribution of trophies -- and the associated bragging rights. (This is the part where we are discussing ideas.)

[racerb]

Hey Scott, it sure makes racing the lowly little Pulsar in ITC seem more inviting, what with no spec tires and only a handfull of bitchers to have to listen to. Now you see why I left SCCA, even though I had raced IT since the mid 80s, come to the dark side, we allow battery relocation, heater core removal and Lexan windows of all things!!

racerb

[instigator]

my piont to you moving people to another class will lower turn out numbers . Thus giving the governing body a reason to force their own agenda on use. As long as this tire rule exist I will support and follow it until the members of the IT7 family suggest other wise. You said you had a suggestion send me an e-mail and lets see if we can get this before the adhoc commity to vote on and present to the comp board to show them we can govern our own class. Present it here if you like. lets try to make a fix , get it out for a vote to the IT7 family.


Kurt Jackson IT7 00 & 59
[email protected]

[NutDriverRighty]

Kurt,
I don't know the result of the latest vote on the tire situation. Has it been made public?
Given that IT7 is often presented as one of the more economical classes to run in, I have felt that the Toyo was a good choice given its longevity and cost. Can you tell us if the vote upheld the use of the Toyos, or did it open the door to others? As I stated in a previous post, a year old set of Toyos will put you much less further back in the field of similarly shod cars than a set of Hoosiers will............and will do it for about $200 less per set!
Like you, I will play along with the rules as they are put forth by the group as a whole. However, I'd hate for my tire bill to go up as much as I expect it to should the Hoosiers be made the spec tire. (yes, I know that they're faster, more predictable, etc. I also know that they have fewer heat cycles in them and that they "go away" before the tread is gone).

Scott Franklin
IT7 and SPU
www.NutDriver.org

[Joe-Racer]

I chose this class for one simple reason, economics - just as Scott pointed out. Although, my year has been sh$tty, you can run competitively in IT7 with a smaller investment (and maintenance costs) than most other classes.

I prefer the longevity of the Toyos and it weighed in heavily on my decision to run IT7. I knew coming in to this that these tires come over on the slow boat; whereas, hoosiers are made right here. So you build in the expectation of shipping and production delays. What's so hard about a little proper planning?

The procrastinators will b*tch only b/c their expectations are completely askew.