Carbon Apex Seal?

[wlfpkrcn]

I'm putting the parts list together for a 13b build for my brother in law (89) On the Mazda Motorsports site I don't see a listing for a carbon apex seal. The only listings I found are for ceramic or steel in a 2mm seal. Am I missing something? Any help is appreciated


Thanks,
Eric

Edit- after more research I found them at Mazdatrix http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=11011

[C. Ludwig]

Mazda doesn't sell them. You can get them from Racing Beat or Mazdatrix. Make sure to get the springs also when you order them.

[lateapex911]

Just to help me understand, the advantages /drawbacks of carbon vs steel are:

Advantages:
Carbon: lighter, and seals better at super high rpm
Carbon: supposedly leaves little or no damage to the housing when and if it "blows"
Steel: Seals better at lower rPM, so better torque is produced.
Steel: common, and cheap

Disadvantages:
Carbon: A little pricier
Carbon: poor torque at lower revs
Steel: Floats at higher revs, sets up standing wave scuffing on the housing
Steel: Destroys housings if and when they let go, harder on rotor grooves as well as a matter of course.
Steel: Can rust and pit the housings if let sit too long in the wrong environment.


What have I missed???

[its66]

I wonder why the ceramic seals haven't been mentioned yet. Could it be the $1800 cost??? nah...
:P

[C. Ludwig]

There have been several sets of Ianettis pop up on Ebay recently for greatly reduced prices. Might want to keep an eye out if that's what you're really looking for.

Jake, you pretty much have it. Though for our application saying there is any disadvantage from a power stand point when going to carbon doesn't hold much water. You should keep the thing above 5k anyway. And the carbon are right in line as far as price. Mazdaspeed is now getting around $300/set for steel seals. Right about what the carbon cost.

Another advantage of the carbon seal is that if you break one you stand a much better chance of not having to throw half the engine in the scrap bin. As long as the failure isn't so comprehensive as to allow the spring to come out of the groove you shouldn't harm the housing or rotor.

[sevenracer]

I had heard that carbon seals chip quite easily, and that you have to spend extra time getting the length of the seal just right during the buildup.

No direct experience on my part, anybody have experience with what it takes to successfully build an engine with carbon seals?

-Neil

[C. Ludwig]

I had heard that carbon seals chip quite easily, and that you have to spend extra time getting the length of the seal just right during the buildup.

No direct experience on my part, anybody have experience with what it takes to successfully build an engine with carbon seals?

-Neil
[/b]

The carbon seals are more prone to destruction from detonation than either steel or ceramic seals. The fact is though, that with any IT engine, you should not even be remotely near the detonation threshold unless something is very, very wrong. Non-issue.

Any seal needs to be fitted for length. Two-piece and three-piece steel seals can be used as delivered (and Mazda usually gets them real close anyway) but should be fitted for length. If you have any reservations about fitting the seal for length you don't need to be assembling an engine in the first place. As far as assembly secrets, there are none. These seals have been around forever. Mazdaspeed has setup tips and specs on their website and RB and Mazdatrix are very helpful when you have questions. Like using any other seal the devil is in the details.

[aryton]

Until recently Ive been running carbon seals in a couple motors and had purchased them from Mazdaspeed.Did they quit selling them? I also have 4 ceramic 2 piece seal setswith springs I would sell.Dave Lemon said he has a couple to complete the set for 2/3 his normal asking price.