SARRC/MARRS VIR

[JeffYoung]

And echoing what Steve and Rex said above -- the region did a GREAT job with this event. More than 400 cars I believe, and things ran on time and smoothly. Very impressive for an event that size.

The two day SARRC/MARRS format is much more agreeable to my system....

Dan, hopefully we will get to meet soon. Is your car moving to ITR, or to DP?

[dj10]

Dan, hopefully we will get to meet soon. Is your car moving to ITR, or to DP? [/b]

Jeff, I raced/ tested in ITR this weekend. I'm only doing Mid Ohio June 2nd in DP because the restricted regional the same weekend won't allow ITR because they think we are to fast. So for me to get ready for the BIG IT FESTIVAL @ Mid O in August, I'm using the National DP race to setup my car.

[SRX7#27]

>>"And echoing what Steve and Rex said above -- the region did a GREAT job with this event. More than 400 cars I believe, and things ran on time and smoothly. Very impressive for an event that size.

Agreed. Very smooth. especially compared with some of the SARRC/MARRS from a few years ago. That being said, I think the huge run groups are a problem. Simply too many cars. Trying to pack 'em all through the turns on the start doesn't seem to work very well. As everybody queues up for a corner, all the spaces fill up and then people start elbowing eachother for room. Next thing you know, there's another damaged car going off, or at least a bumper on the track. Seems to smooth out after the first lap when people have enough room to think before they dive for a scrap of space.. I wonder if split starts might improve the situation when there are that many cars. I recall it was the same way the first couple of time I went when there were over 400 entries, like in '01 and '02...

>>"The two day SARRC/MARRS format is much more agreeable to my system...."

As much as I love bumming around VIR, the 2 day format definitely works better.. Used to have to tow on Wed and not get home till Sunday. That's 4 nights of camping and it's also pretty hard on the liver!

[Anubis]

Sorry to hear about the car Jeff. That was the worst I have ever felt a car at VIR. That gocart rubber on top of the fact that no corner worker seems to know what a black flag was??
[/b]

Steve,

Corner workers certainly know what the black flag is, however you might want to check out the GCR concerning black flags(pay particular attention to the note that is in all caps) before making a statement like that:

F. BLACK FLAG (Solid Black)
CLOSED BLACK FLAG (Furled) Pointed or shaken at an individual car from the Starter’s stand (optionally, accompanied by a number board indicating the car number): WARNING! You have been observed driving in an unsafe and/or improper manner. If the action continues, you shall be given an OPEN BLACK FLAG.
BLACK, OPEN - Displayed from the Starter’s stand, and accompanied by a number board indicating the car number: Proceed directly to the pits and the location designated by the Chief Steward or event Supplementary Regulations for consultation with Officials. DO NOT TAKE ANOTHER LAP. NOTE: This flag and accompanying number board may be additionally displayed at another station location elsewhere on the course.
BLACK, OPEN, DISPLAYED AT ALL STATIONS - The session has been halted. Practice/qualifying/racing has stopped and all cars shall proceed directly to the pits. This flag condition shall be accompanied by an ‘ALL’ sign displayed at the Starter’s stand and the sign may be repeated at stations located elsewhere on the course. If the session/race is restarted, it is done under the provisions of Section 6.5, Restarts.
NOTE: THE BLACK FLAG CAN ONLY BE DISPLAYED BY ORDER OF THE CHIEF STEWARD AS RELAYED THROUGH RACE CONTROL.

[Joe-Racer]

In his haste, I'm sure Steve meant to say meatball. But his point was well taken.

[seckerich]

Thanks for the correction. I did mean the meatball. :P It just was so blatant that I would expect the corners to call it in. If they did and were ignored--so be it. The smoke and oil from a few cars were way out of line. The one car who I will not name would disappear in my video in his own cloud of smoke. My windshield and car were covered with oil after the Saturday race. For me the whole weekend was a "what else can go wrong" kind of trip. Good people, good racing, and can't wait for next year. :026:

PS. I have seen a black flag before!!

[Anubis]

Mechanical black flags while listed in the next section of the GCR fall under the same boat, it is entirely upto the stewards and the order must come from control. Not having been there I can't say what was, or wasn't calling.. just want to make the procedures clear to avoid future misconceptions on what we can and cannot do.

[Cobrar05]

I think I got to practice with some of you guys on Friday and I enjoyed sharing the track with you. I thought the weekend ran very well based on my limited experience. At the very least I always knew easily what was going on and when I need to be at the grid. Not always the case at other tracks I've been to.

As for gaffes by those running the races for us, I offer the following.

In my big bore race on Saturday I was having a spirited race with an Asedan Mustang heading up thru the snake when I saw a plume of smoke coming from the hill near turn 10. Next I saw the tow truck light flashing....AND MOVING....just past the flag station. It was then that I realized he was headed for the race track. I checked the flag station to see the worker struggling to get the white flag out. Not the yellow or the red, but the white....no S*^T there was something slow on the track...with flashing lights on it....the Mustang I was chasing nearly ran up the tow truck's tail lights thru the esses....lots of room there for passing tow trucks.....whew.

[mlytle]

I think I got to practice with some of you guys on Friday and I enjoyed sharing the track with you. I thought the weekend ran very well based on my limited experience. At the very least I always knew easily what was going on and when I need to be at the grid. Not always the case at other tracks I've been to.

As for gaffes by those running the races for us, I offer the following.

In my big bore race on Saturday I was having a spirited race with an Asedan Mustang heading up thru the snake when I saw a plume of smoke coming from the hill near turn 10. Next I saw the tow truck light flashing....AND MOVING....just past the flag station. It was then that I realized he was headed for the race track. I checked the flag station to see the worker struggling to get the white flag out. Not the yellow or the red, but the white....no S*^T there was something slow on the track...with flashing lights on it....the Mustang I was chasing nearly ran up the tow truck's tail lights thru the esses....lots of room there for passing tow trucks.....whew.
[/b]

i was watching the big bore race from the hill by the bridge. saw that whole deal in the esses. we were shocked that the ev jumped on the track there rather than cruising up the grass for a bit until there was a break in traffic. it was scary to watch, had to be worse from inside a car!

i just reviewed my incar vid from the weekend and was just shaking my head at the its #30 rx7. lapped him at least twice in every session. scary closing rates. he was probably going 30mph at the top of the esses when our front pack blew by him at one point. he should have been taken off the track by the stewards after the first qual session on sat. nice guy or not, he was a serious safety hazzard all weekend. would have rather had an ev on track in our group...faster and with flashing lights at least. sheesh.

[iambhooper]

Right or wrong, from my experience working corners and haveing a fellow racer that owns a britich prod car, I can tell you a couple of things:
1) all old british car leak oil... in fact, some might even occaisionally have to come in for several quarts during the race! eh!
2) unless it's on fire, or spraying a thick coat on the car behind, little will happen. Meatballs are a judgement call. the stewards take into consideration feedback from all the reporting stations, b4 making a call... everyone is a customer, and they want to be put on a good, safe show. Sometimes what you think is the right call, isn't, and vice versa.
3) Workers, stewards, and drivers are all human. Heck, I got blue flagged in sundays race. I was in 2nd place, running well, and they through the flag at me for the 3rd place car on my tail!
4) Yes, the track was greasy... very greasy. In the past 3 weeks they have had The Rolex, and 2 historic weekends. Plus the weeks have been full. Throw in little to no rain, and you have a mess.

[JeffYoung]

All good points Hoop......and most importantly:

CONGRATS ON THE WIN!

[mlytle]

4) Yes, the track was greasy... very greasy. In the past 3 weeks they have had The Rolex, and 2 historic weekends. Plus the weeks have been full. Throw in little to no rain, and you have a mess.
[/b]

was one of the historic weekends the vintage/bmwcca race mid april? i can attest that the track was VERY clean when we left it...that was the weekend that monster storm hit the east coast. not much chance of any grease/oil left on the track after our race in the middle of the storm that sunday!

[mlytle]

1) all old british car leak oil... in fact, some might even occaisionally have to come in for several quarts during the race! eh!
[/b]

and old porsches...and old alfa's and old (fill in the blank prod car). i had never run with the small bore prod group before. i thought running with big bore all season last year would have prepped me, but i was surprised at the large number of smoke generators out there in group 7. every lapping situation became a guessing game...is it just something burning??? or is is something leaking on the track.....

there were some really fast prod cars with great drivers out there too. the ep rx7, 240z and 2002 were a blast to run with.

[iambhooper]

thats since the big down poor. my dad works for the track, so i usually have a good idea of track conditions before we get there... now if it helps or not, i'm not to say.

Thanks Jeff! i was very surprised to pull that one out on saturday. the scirraco had tons of torque and puled me down the straights. So even though he had gone off twice, he managed to get back in front each time. my car also had setup issues, that i didn't get diagnosed until sunday... the rear was rotating way too much and the car was just not neutral enough for VIR. anyway, got we were in the right position coming off of hog pen on the last lap to pass him when he was stuck behind an ITB golf, thats the important part.

i found more speed for sunday's race, but finished third.

hoop

[Charlie Broring]

I had a great time and a successful race. However the 80 car ITA,ITB, ITC,IT7, SRX7 group was way too big. There was lots of bent sheet metal in Sundays race. The term "Cluster F**k" kept being used to describe Saturday's qualifying. Thankfully the stewards responded to our request to grid Sunday's qualifying based on Saturday's time. It seemed universal among the MARRS ITB drivers that the large field detracted form the quality and enjoyment of the event.

I'm looking forward to returning next year but have been asked to request a return to the previous 3 day format or run it as a single race with more but smaller groups.

Charlie Broring
MARRS ITB Driver Rep.

[seckerich]

When you have groups with 12 cars and others with 90+ it is clear something with the groups needs to change. Add one more group and combine open wheel.

[Knestis]

The draw format was a special kind of problem on Sat. morning but I don't buy that the beating and banging was all about the number of cars on the track. There were some dumb moves going on out there, and a few people who were missing some fundamental understandings, like "close up on the cars in front of you on the pace lap, you big stoopie."

K

[mlytle]

When you have groups with 12 cars and others with 90+ it is clear something with the groups needs to change. Add one more group and combine open wheel.
[/b]

i thought it was amusing at the drivers meeting sat when it was suggested to move the small srf group into the smaller open wheel group. an srf driver complained about the speed differential being unsafe....hmmm, there were already fa/fc in the open wheel group running with fv's and f500's! srf's would have been in the middle.

and even the speed differential there couldn't hold a candle to the speed differential in group 7.

[mstutt]

i thought it was amusing at the drivers meeting sat when it was suggested to move the small srf group into the smaller open wheel group. an srf driver complained about the speed differential being unsafe....hmmm, there were already fa/fc in the open wheel group running with fv's and f500's! srf's would have been in the middle.
[/b]

I have a hard time swallowing that one. Again this year, SRX7 was in the big bore practice group. I can't imagine a bigger power/speed differential.

[Bugeater]

Great weekend - I must say I have never passed more damn towtrucks and cars pointing in the wrong direction in a race weekend! What class were the trucks BTW? I never saw them pass tech....Those damned trucks sitting off to the right of the esses while wizzing by at 125 was not a good feeling....or the worker getting out of his truck at T11 on the side *facing the track and my splitter* as I am barreling down into the brakezone wasnt comforting either. I suppose the added miscellaneous moving objects on and near-track make the races always a learning experience...and MAN there was alot of that!

Yo Mr. Cobra, were you ever privvy to the "choo choo train" smokescreen created on lap 1 sunday? LOL! My in-car video shows it well...also the oil puked out later on in the race made for some interesting ice skating up at southbend (T10)...I dont like iceskating there. Baaaaaaaad feelin. T14 was a big oil-fun-extravaganza as well....

Yeah, that was fun.