SARRC/MARRS VIR

[Cobrar05]

i was watching the big bore race from the hill by the bridge. saw that whole deal in the esses. we were shocked that the ev jumped on the track there rather than cruising up the grass for a bit until there was a break in traffic. it was scary to watch, had to be worse from inside a car![/b]

I never felt in danger because I saw the entire thing unfold and was prepared to avoid the tow truck. I was disappointed that it pretty well killed my chase of the AS Mustang, though.

Yo Mr. Cobra, were you ever privvy to the "choo choo train" smokescreen created on lap 1 sunday? LOL! My in-car video shows it well...also the oil puked out later on in the race made for some interesting ice skating up at southbend (T10)...I dont like iceskating there. Baaaaaaaad feelin. T14 was a big oil-fun-extravaganza as well....

Yeah, that was fun.
[/b]

I think I need refresher on the choo choo train. I am not sure I recall that. Back where I was it was pretty busy. The white vintage Corvette was off in the grass a row or so ahead of me on the front stretch BEFORE the green flag came out and my area got all packed in and pretty crazy.

I would like to see the in car video. Did my white O5 car show up in your footage at all? I recall coming into tech behind you Sunday and assume we finished up that way.

[Bugeater]

Pretty sure I saw the R in the vid, but I'll be damned if I can find a way to convert it yet small enuf to host it...
Its a newer Sony High Definition video camera, and whatever proprietary hardware compression they are using is not compatible with my roxio software to get the file sizes to manageable format (like wmv, mpeg4 etc...) I mean, 1 lap (2.07-09 minutes) = nearly 500MB! The race footage is too large for a DVD (4.7gig) at the current mpeg2 format.

PITA right now cuz its too new for current software, but holy sh1t does it show DETAIL. Its filmed at 1080i high def.

Once I find a way to convert it to a wmv file it should compress to like 80MB or so, and I will stick it somewhere...like youtube where I have another file of roughly the same size.

Oh yeah, love the Cobra R.

[spnkzss]

Pretty sure I saw the R in the vid, but I'll be damned if I can find a way to convert it yet small enuf to host it...
Its a newer Sony High Definition video camera, and whatever proprietary hardware compression they are using is not compatible with my roxio software to get the file sizes to manageable format (like wmv, mpeg4 etc...) I mean, 1 lap (2.07-09 minutes) = nearly 500MB! The race footage is too large for a DVD (4.7gig) at the current mpeg2 format.

PITA right now cuz its too new for current software, but holy sh1t does it show DETAIL. Its filmed at 1080i high def.

Once I find a way to convert it to a wmv file it should compress to like 80MB or so, and I will stick it somewhere...like youtube where I have another file of roughly the same size.

Oh yeah, love the Cobra R.
[/b]

Instead of trying to convert to wmv, do what DirecTV and try to find a way to convert it to .MP4.

[mlytle]

results for sunday races 5/6/7 are now up on mylaps.com

[dj10]

results for sunday races 5/6/7 are now up on mylaps.com [/b]

5 Laps on Sunday?

[mlytle]

5 Laps on Sunday?
[/b]

no.....10. you must be looking at the qualifying session.

unless you were the #30 rx7, then you got 5 cause you were lapped so many times...

[dj10]

no.....10. you must be looking at the qualifying session.

unless you were the #30 rx7, then you got 5 cause you were lapped so many times... [/b]

Ahhhh copy.

[mgyip]

I had a great time and a successful race. However the 80 car ITA,ITB, ITC,IT7, SRX7 group was way too big. There was lots of bent sheet metal in Sundays race. [/b]

I also had fun - more an Saturday than Sunday though. I was fortunately able to avoid the carnage but it wasn't for lack of trying by a white RX-7 that pushed me off on the first lap on Sunday.

I agree that the fields were huge and qualifying on Saturday, to say the least, fugly. Either go back to a 3-day double or a single sanction 2-day event. The huge groups don't work well together and it's not much fun racing with cars that have virtually identical lap times but different classes - ITA, ITB, IT7 and SRX7 in particular.

[iambhooper]

I also had fun - more an Saturday than Sunday though. I was fortunately able to avoid the carnage but it wasn't for lack of trying by a white RX-7 that pushed me off on the first lap on Sunday.

I agree that the fields were huge and qualifying on Saturday, to say the least, fugly. Either go back to a 3-day double or a single sanction 2-day event. The huge groups don't work well together and it's not much fun racing with cars that have virtually identical lap times but different classes - ITA, ITB, IT7 and SRX7 in particular.
[/b]

Not to champion large fields, but, you guys obviously arent used to them. The first 3 years I raced, I predominatly ran the ECR's (with the Double SARRC/MARRS being the main exception from that routine), which routinely fielded 80+ cars on a 3.27 mile track at VIR. We even had 1 race where the stewards waived the field requirements and allowed 109 cars on the track at once (the end result was one of the cleanest races I have seen from behind the wheel)!

You complain about the mix of ITA, IT7, ITB, SPEC7 and ITC rides... throw in the ITS, SRF's and Spec Miatas, then you'll learn how to deal with large fields. These guys will pass you like a pack of dogs running around the heard!

From my cars position at the back of the grid (hey, it is a C car afterall) I have been fortunate to avoild these circumstances while having an excellent view. To me, most of the problems at VIR appear to involve the driver's that arent familiar/comfortable with the track layout.

At the back, the problem I run into most often comes from the cars that haven't run VIR enough. Usually they are intimidated by the flat or climbing esse's, or they trail brake all the way down through hogpen... only to be blindingly fast down the straights. Now to offer the benifit of the doubt, perhaps they are having handling issues and are holding me up 3-5 seconds per lap in the corners only to pull and pass me on the straights (my car lacks the proper final drive). This is an issue that I seldom run into in the ECR's.

That being said... I have enjoyed the SARRC/MARRS event over the pst 4 years. It has given me an opportunity to learn a lot about my car and driving skills while running against a large ITC group. It was too bad I didnt discover my handling issues until sunday, or my car would have been a bit faster on saturday.

It's hard for the SCCA to be all things to all people. A few years ago, we ran the Grand Course, and everyone complined about the cost, or the fuel, or something. People got tired of the 3 day event, and stopped shoeing up, now it's a 2 day event and people complain that it's too much!

hoop

[JimW337]

As a rookie driver who has never run VIR full, (only North and South) and who is still trying to get used to the traffic. I found the big run groups are great learning experience and the best seat in the house to see the race, especially from the back of the pack.

Here's a link to my Car Domain page where I have some video of Saturday's race.

View Video and Vote Here

While you're there vote 5 stars so I can get invited to VIR by Grass Roots Magazine.

It's been a blast to follow Hoop around the track, he has some good lines through traffic. It's been fun racing with him, I just hope I haven't spoiled any in class races. Maybe someday I'll learn to pedal faster! In the mean time I'm having the time of my life.

JimW

[seckerich]

Not to champion large fields, but, you guys obviously arent used to them. The first 3 years I raced, I predominatly ran the ECR's (with the Double SARRC/MARRS being the main exception from that routine), which routinely fielded 80+ cars on a 3.27 mile track at VIR. We even had 1 race where the stewards waived the field requirements and allowed 109 cars on the track at once (the end result was one of the cleanest races I have seen from behind the wheel)!

You complain about the mix of ITA, IT7, ITB, SPEC7 and ITC rides... throw in the ITS, SRF's and Spec Miatas, then you'll learn how to deal with large fields. These guys will pass you like a pack of dogs running around the heard!

From my cars position at the back of the grid (hey, it is a C car afterall) I have been fortunate to avoild these circumstances while having an excellent view. To me, most of the problems at VIR appear to involve the driver's that arent familiar/comfortable with the track layout.

At the back, the problem I run into most often comes from the cars that haven't run VIR enough. Usually they are intimidated by the flat or climbing esse's, or they trail brake all the way down through hogpen... only to be blindingly fast down the straights. Now to offer the benifit of the doubt, perhaps they are having handling issues and are holding me up 3-5 seconds per lap in the corners only to pull and pass me on the straights (my car lacks the proper final drive). This is an issue that I seldom run into in the ECR's.

That being said... I have enjoyed the SARRC/MARRS event over the pst 4 years. It has given me an opportunity to learn a lot about my car and driving skills while running against a large ITC group. It was too bad I didnt discover my handling issues until sunday, or my car would have been a bit faster on saturday.

It's hard for the SCCA to be all things to all people. A few years ago, we ran the Grand Course, and everyone complined about the cost, or the fuel, or something. People got tired of the 3 day event, and stopped shoeing up, now it's a 2 day event and people complain that it's too much!

hoop
[/b]

Just to be clear about something Hoop. A few years ago you ran the Grand course and it sucked. The part added to make it "grand" also made it impossible to safely pass a lapped car for most of the added section. Any lead from the rest of the track was lost immediately resulting in impatient (insert bumper) passes that were not good racing but happened out of frustration. The region listened to driver input and dropped the failed experiment.

The 3 day format that rquired us to be there Friday to Qualify and then sit on our butts for 3 days for less track time than a single SARRC was a crock. We get one qualifying session and a race for 3 days? Again the region listened to the drivers (insert CUSTOMER) and moved to 2 day format. Good move!! Not the track time I would like with no practice but I can live with it to have big fields and run VIR. The length of the track and time it takes to get sessions in and out makes the schedule tight.

This year we had some groups with 12 cars and others with 90+. Other regions run closed wheel in one group and VIR is definitely big enough to make it work. I hope the region again looks at those that are supporting their races and make the changes necessary to even out the groups. As a region you have a product to sell and you need to please the customers if you want them to continue to spend money with you. We bitch with money and I can find plenty of other regions to spend it with if I get grouped with production again.

Take it for what it is worth.

[iambhooper]

Steve,
Yes the region did listen to the drivers, and went back to the full course... and it listened at they went from a 3 day to a 2 day event. However, there is a point at which you can only do so much to please everyone. Not that long ago you could have a group that was SM, ITA, SRX7 and another group that was SSC, SSB, ITB and ITC (mix n match however you want).

It is hard to spread the fields out when you have 400+- cars at an event. Yes, the wings n things group may only have 12-15 cars in it, but they paid there money just like everyone else and should get their track time.

There is no easy solution to large run groups. I think saturdays last race started around 5:30 or so, so it would be hard to squeeze an additional run group into that field. Perhaps, in the end, the 3 day event was the right choice. Maybe with a longer friday practice of 30 minutes or so, and a shorter qualifying on saturday and sunday, would allow for an additional run group.

I certainly agree that trafic was a problem this weekend (Jim's nice video can attest to that), but I don't see as much a function of too many cars as I do a function of people not familiar with the track's ideosyncrcy's (did i spell that big word right?).

hoop


Jim,

Thats a good looking twitchy Honda in front of your car Nice video! I especially like the last lap... the only time the whole weekend I put the car off at Oak Tree, yet still manage to get around the Sciracco out of Hog Pen!

I had the handling all screwed up and didn't get it properly sorted until sundays race. I would like to think my line was much more natural on Sunday, my times tend toprove it. It's all a learning experience. I need more track time... perhaps a test day is in my future this summer.

You and I have had some good runs together, basically at 3 different tracks! I can't remember, were we together on sunday?

Also, could you email me both of those videos?


Thanks!
hoop

[mlytle]

Just to be clear about something Hoop. A few years ago you ran the Grand course and it sucked. The part added to make it "grand" also made it impossible to safely pass a lapped car for most of the added section. Any lead from the rest of the track was lost immediately resulting in impatient (insert bumper) passes that were not good racing but happened out of frustration. The region listened to driver input and dropped the failed experiment.

The 3 day format that rquired us to be there Friday to Qualify and then sit on our butts for 3 days for less track time than a single SARRC was a crock. We get one qualifying session and a race for 3 days? Again the region listened to the drivers (insert CUSTOMER) and moved to 2 day format. Good move!! Not the track time I would like with no practice but I can live with it to have big fields and run VIR. The length of the track and time it takes to get sessions in and out makes the schedule tight.

This year we had some groups with 12 cars and others with 90+. Other regions run closed wheel in one group and VIR is definitely big enough to make it work. I hope the region again looks at those that are supporting their races and make the changes necessary to even out the groups. As a region you have a product to sell and you need to please the customers if you want them to continue to spend money with you. We bitch with money and I can find plenty of other regions to spend it with if I get grouped with production again.

Take it for what it is worth.
[/b]

yes, if they had put all the low-subscription open wheel and sports racers/srf's in one group, it still would have been the smallest group and it would have freed up at least one or two run groups for the 90+ car run groups to spread out. and the speed difference in the open wheel group would still have been a lot smaller than the difference in group 7 (itr/its/efghp).

[JimW337]

Jim,

Thats a good looking twitchy Honda in front of your car Nice video! I especially like the last lap... the only time the whole weekend I put the car off at Oak Tree, yet still manage to get around the Sciracco out of Hog Pen!

I had the handling all screwed up and didn't get it properly sorted until sundays race. I would like to think my line was much more natural on Sunday, my times tend toprove it. It's all a learning experience. I need more track time... perhaps a test day is in my future this summer.

You and I have had some good runs together, basically at 3 different tracks! I can't remember, were we together on sunday?

Also, could you email me both of those videos?
Thanks!
hoop
[/b]

Hoop,

I think the video is too big to email. I've copied the whole VIR weekend from the VHS-C camcorder onto a DVD, I'll see if I can just copy the DVD and bring you the copy at the next monthly meeting.

Jim

[Bugeater]

Hoop -

Some of us are used to big fields in the sense that we dont mind them, bur for the guys that may not, heres my thoughts (worth about as much as you could sell them for):
There is a significant difference between say an 80 car ITC field and say an 80 car SPO or fast IT field. You will never see 170 mph and "have to make a decision" in ITA/B/C etc. That obviously is the extreme example, but the average speed difference in the big bore group necessitates quicker responses on average. Going wheel to wheel at triple digits enters a psychological realm that you dont see at speeds under 100. I am not saying that the 80 car ITA/B/C fields are not taxing/requiring less skill/etc. Far from it. I am simply lending thoughts counter to the idea that "we arent used to large fields".

Now that being said and for the record - I dont think 40 is too big at all! Actually, I like a big field (like in qualifying or especially in test n tune) even with the SRX7's mixed in, cuz it makes for fun driving and hones your ability to gauge gaps, closing speeds and make good or bad passing decisions in all areas of the track. In the end, all good learning experiences. The video is fun to watch too :-)

Also, I am one of the rare birds in Big Bore that absolutely *loved* Grand East in 2005. I know I'm weird like that. Why? Because I used to autocross and liked the tight, quick infield. I actually was able to catch and pass some of the higher HP and higher qualifiers in there. Personally I think some didnt like it because you basically had to be good on a fast and slow track. Its a mindset change requiring more thinking and patience as opposed to fast, flowing rhythm. Its a bummer we probably wont see it again at the double.

If I misinterpreted your post, well, heck. Ignore the crap I typed.

[iambhooper]

Hoop -
If I misinterpreted your post, well, heck. Ignore the crap I typed.
[/b]

Nope I understand entirely. Being a former autocrosser, I too liked the Grand course for what it was... it actually opened up a few more pasing zones for us "momentum" class's.

BTW... the CRX nearly attains the top speed of 114 mph, so we aren't that slow

hoop

[Joe-Racer]

There is a significant difference between say an 80 car ITC field and say an 80 car SPO or fast IT field. [/b]

No offense, but I disagree with that statement. The difference is only in the disparity of the field.

[jjjanos]

Hoop... I was the Smurf Blue CRX that had a nice race with you on Saturday. Got some nice video of you needing to get on the brakes through the uphill esses because of an IT7. Got some great video of me nearly collecting your rear end about 1 second later. Stupid RX7!

Large fields - the 80 car field didn't bother me other than two times...

1. The pace lap - I don't like to criticize the vols, but the pace laps were way too fast. I darn near lost the car on cold tires at South Bend on Saturday because I had to go drive at 9/10ths to catch the field. I was sitting 61st of 89 cars. I caught the field at the point where I was at the right-hand turn-in for Roller Coaster. Gawd help the poor suckers who were further back than me.

2. The start - with that many cars, the guys in the back are assuming that the field is green by the time we are leaving Hogpen. I don't know whether it was a late green or something else, but I do know that back in row 32, I had to nail my brakes to avoid giving a colonoscopy to the RX7 in front of me and my video shows an accordian effect for at least 3 rows in front of me. I am pretty certain that some cars had to take to the dirt to avoid contact.

With that many cars, it was busy and a learning experience. I learned a great deal of race craft and next year, all of the "faster" cars that held me up through the esses and South Bend are going to see me blow past them in the run from South Bend to Oak Tree. Let's just say I might be a slow learner, but watching the game tapes showed me the error of my ways.

[iambhooper]

Hoop... I was the Smurf Blue CRX that had a nice race with you on Saturday. Got some nice video of you needing to get on the brakes through the uphill esses because of an IT7. Got some great video of me nearly collecting your rear end about 1 second later. Stupid RX7![/b]

You know, I was a bit PO'd at that Spec7... in our run group, there is little need to be hard on the brakes at 7,8,9,10, and 15. If you are using the brakes through here, it is costing serious time. That Mazda, and several other cars, hurt my lap times on saturday. It's easy to lose 4 seconds through there.

Large fields - the 80 car field didn't bother me other than two times...

1. The pace lap - I don't like to criticize the vols, but the pace laps were way too fast. I darn near lost the car on cold tires at South Bend on Saturday because I had to go drive at 9/10ths to catch the field. I was sitting 61st of 89 cars. I caught the field at the point where I was at the right-hand turn-in for Roller Coaster. Gawd help the poor suckers who were further back than me.

2. The start - with that many cars, the guys in the back are assuming that the field is green by the time we are leaving Hogpen. I don't know whether it was a late green or something else, but I do know that back in row 32, I had to nail my brakes to avoid giving a colonoscopy to the RX7 in front of me and my video shows an accordian effect for at least 3 rows in front of me. I am pretty certain that some cars had to take to the dirt to avoid contact. [/b]

I wont say much about the pace car... the drivers are friends of mine, and they are experieinced.

That being said, I never really got bunched up with the pack on saturday... not to mention some MARRS @$$#*!& in a SILVER FORD FIESTA decided to start passing people b4 the Green flag could have possibly even flown! I hope he got busted bad. And if he's on the forum, I HOPE YOU WERE BUSTED FOR THAT IDIOTIC STUPID MOVE YOU LOSER!!!!

Yes, there were a few cars in the corn field at the start.

With that many cars, it was busy and a learning experience. I learned a great deal of race craft and next year, all of the "faster" cars that held me up through the esses and South Bend are going to see me blow past them in the run from South Bend to Oak Tree. Let's just say I might be a slow learner, but watching the game tapes showed me the error of my ways.
[/b]

Best of luck. Hope to see you back! You drove well both days.

hoop

Jim,

That will be fine with the DVD. I am out of town working that week, and if I can't get to the meeting, just give it to Ed. Let me know what I owe you for the disk.

Thanks!
hoop

[RacerBowie]

I really don't think the pace laps were too fast. I was on the front row both days, and we spent the VAST majority of the lap at or around 40mph, definitely slowing to even less than that for a bit on the back straight. The pace car driver even warned us that he was going to slow there to let the field attempt to recover from the bottleneck at oak tree.

I just think there were too many people in the middle of the pack "warming their tires" and being jackasses that held you guys with the ITB and ITC cars that were in the back due to car and not due to sucking at driving! ...and believe me it is easy to tell the difference when coming up on lapped traffic!