alum vs fiberglass vs kevlar seats

[nevr2L8]

Here is a poor boy newbies poll.
Lets say you are about to build a race car and you only have about $500 to spend on a seat.
You are 5'10" tall and weigh in at 155lbs.
The car you have has the Sparco Sprint seats, which have no shell at all but still got the FIA nod (very scary)
Has there ever been any research done on which materials do the best in a crash ?
The aluminum sounds very thin and is one of the softest metals around.
The fiberglass or kevlar aren't even quoted in any thickness. Of the two I would lean towards the Kevlar as being stronger.
SFI doen't even rate seats.
FIA does but OKed the tubular Sparco Sprint.
Give me some feedback on this issue, so I don't buy the wrong seat.
Thanks
Paul

[Greg Amy]

I use the FIA-approved Momo Start fiberglass seat, ~$290 from LTBMotorsports.com

[disquek]

est in a crash ?
The aluminum sounds very thin and is one of the softest metals around.
[/b]

I don't think AL's hardness or it's thickness is an issue. The Cup boys seem to make out okay with AL seats.

Kirkey, Butler, Lajoie, all make some incredible seats.

One of the beauties of AL seats is that you can have them made to your measurements.

-Kyle

[joeg]

It is all a matter of personal preferrence.

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as an FIA-approved aluminum seat.

A Nascar aluminum seat is very expensive.

[benspeed]

I just got a Kirkey Intermediate including a near brand new cover and head restraints off eBay for $124 shipped - make sure the car has only been mounted once before or it'll be full of holes and may present a problem when you mount it and not be safe. I also have leg protectors for it. You can use universal seat mounts for the floor or if you want to really do it right, buy the Kirkey cage mount setup that welds the seat mounts to your cage. That is the ultimate in safety-if the cage moves your seat will go with it reducing chances of a pinch injury. You can also add shoulder supports - I run the same seat in my stocker with head, shoulder and leg protection.

I go with Aluminum seats with the back mounted to the cage - reasonably priced and like Kyle said - works for cup guys running 180 mph.

[ddewhurst]

A safety sugestion would be to NOT buy a seat that has WRAP AROUND rib support. Your ribs are the weakest part of your body that provides support during a crash. The other two main body parts are your hips & shoulders.

Those oval sprint car folks may not be going 150 plus miles per hour but they do some real nasty stuff while riding their alum seats.

[Domino]

I WAS your exact dimensions when I purchased my seat. A few pounds heavier and it is still fine

I got the Cobra Imola Kevlar seat from Sube Sports. Great seat, great retailer. I would definately buy another Cobra. Quality is great. I had my own seat brackets made from 5mm aluminum.

It's within your price point at $529.
http://www.subesports.com/products/cat/Sea...obra/prodID/656

Take a look at Demon Tweeks you can save a lot of money sometimes even with overseas shipping.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/Pro...016&tlgrp=MS005

[tom_sprecher]

Kirkey Intermediate Lightweight - $290, the cover is extra, it has rib support and you can add shoulder and head support at a later date if you choose to. Plus, it's a work of metal art. After hitting the NASCAR bars and crushing the door panel flat with my shoulder and f'ing up my ribs for about a month I want something that keeps me in place. I had to brace myself with the shifter in the old Corbeau Forza causing me to miss a couple of shifts in the same turns.

If you need stronger ribs add a little more red pepper to that BBQ sauce...

[John Herman]

I've used both the Butler (?) circle track aluminum seat which supported me on my ribs, and no additional shoulder support and a MOMO road racing seat with the shoulder and head support. I found I moved around MUCH more in the aluminum seat (even with extra padding added). Without my shoulders restrained, I could see in the video I could actually lean my whole upper body into the corners. (And yes the belts were very tight). To say the NASCAR guys use an aluminum seat, and therefore it is the same as buying the base circle track aluminum seat is a poor comparison. Their aluminum seats have all the bells and whistles (head supports, shoulder supports, leg supports, and God knows what other supports) and really do cacoon the driver. And yes they are $$$$. The MOMO seat with the shoulder supports, once those belts are tight, I do not move. Comparing in-car video from both seats, with the MOMO video you only see my head move slightly (as the seat also has the head wings)versus the entire upper body. When I made the switch, I really began to notice how much I had subconciously been bracing myself with the old seat to keep from moving around. I would NEVER drill through a fiberglass or kevlar seat to support it to the roll cage. Though my seat is FIA approved, it was installed prior to the rule change. I basically made a steel cradle that wrapped around the seat at the should points, and welded that to the cage. Tech was/has been very happy with that. I would recommend trying on a few seats if you can before purchasing them, or at least getting an agreement from the vendor that you can return the seat if it doesn't fit right. When you tryout the seat, don't just plop it down on the floor and sit in it. Try to put it at the angle and height that you will use it in the car. The seat angle has a lot to do for comfort, as well as how high off the car floor you really are. Either have someone hold the seat for you and/or use some wood blocks to set the angle. Some seats have removable pads, so if you want extra support somewhere, you can remove the pads and add extra (a towel or the camp sleeping pads work good for this) A seat is a little like a helmet, what is perfect for one person, sucks for another. In the end, it is what attaches you to the car and allows you to feel what it is doing, so do not take this seat choice lightly.

[nevr2L8]

All great info and I thank you all for your time.
Of the people who have the aluminum seats, did you end up with the 10 or 20 layback ?
I just found out that I will be required to have a center net head restraint or a seat with a head restraint as of July 1. Do you guys use these ? Do they block your vision, ie passenger side mirror ?
The video on the Racetech web site is sobering. The guy's head pops out of the seat restraint and he looses his face shield !!!
Thanks again
Paul

[JIgou]

A friend recently acquired a car that came with an UltraShield Pro Road Race seat in it. I like that seat, a lot. It's available in a wide assortment of sizes, and that particular one runs about $350 with a cover of your choosing.

I haven't determined if there's a significant difference between that and the UltraShield Rally seat, but the Rally seat runs a fair amount less $$.

http://www.ultrashieldrace.com/

Jarrod
(Not affiliated, etc.)

[tom_sprecher]

20 degree.

[benspeed]

20 degree.
[/b]

Me too - 20 degree

[tom91ita]

i too went with an aluminum seat very similar to the ultrashield pro road race.

my reasoning was as follows:

1. with aluminum i can see or easily test (dye penetrant) for damage that would be unseen on others.
2. with aluminum, i don't have to worry about a sanctioning body saying they have degraded due to UV.
3. "upgrading" to not have to bother with a seat back brace is nonsense imho.

the UV thing may never happen but many other things that were good "forever" until showing signs of being worn are now being replaced every 2-5 years. i know of no reason that kevlar may not show the same potential for damage and require periodic replacement.

google "UV damage kevlar" and you will find many hits

[Domino]

i too went with an aluminum seat very similar to the ultrashield pro road race.

my reasoning was as follows:

1. with aluminum i can see or easily test (dye penetrant) for damage that would be unseen on others.
2. with aluminum, i don't have to worry about a sanctioning body saying they have degraded due to UV.
3. "upgrading" to not have to bother with a seat back brace is nonsense imho.

the UV thing may never happen but many other things that were good "forever" until showing signs of being worn are now being replaced every 2-5 years. i know of no reason that kevlar may not show the same potential for damage and require periodic replacement.

google "UV damage kevlar" and you will find many hits
[/b]

I have yet to see a kevlar seat that was not fully painted like a fiberglass seat. UV damage is essentially zero.

[AntonioGG]

Spend $100 more and get an Ultrashield Road Race with Halo. It's an awesome seat for the price, but be prepared to wait for it since it's a popular seat.

[tom91ita]

using uv damage data for belts that are left in the sun for months vs. uv damage for belts inside a garage stored race car is not exactly a good application of science.

i am just saying that it is my fear of what a sanctioning body might impose and how it impacted my decision to go aluminum.

nascar is sometimes noted with regards to requiring HANS and they appear to use aluminum almost exclusively. have no idea if it is a trend or not but it is another data point.

[zchris]

I do not like the composite seats because there are not enough different sizes and because they only allow the 5/16" 4 bolt mounting. I have yet to fit in one that was remotely comfortable. Allways to big or to small. To tight on my hips and loose on the rest of me. At 6' and 240 lbs, not even the MOMO nascar fits right. You can get any Kirkey in any 1/2" increment widths and any hieght for little extra. I think most poeple just do not get there AL seat small enough so they move around. At my size I use a 15.5" Kirkey RR seat. I was told to use a 17" and my ass would swim around in the corners. I install 20+ seats a year and try them all, composite and AL. Gonna stick with AL.
Chris