No Ecr at Daytona in May

[Mattberg]

...but I thought the plan was never brought up at the 2005 mid-year meeting? You told me yourself on the phone that it wasn't brought to the floor and others there say it never even existed and now you say differently? Egads. Furthermore you said there was no documentation and now you say there was? Why didn't you pass on a copy when we spoke or at least confirm the plan's existence? You denied anything existed. Why would you withold that information? I got the info and document from a different source long after I talked to you.

Anyone seeing the same pattern here? The story changes like the weather in New England.

Alas... the web one weaves...

But all you have to do is look at what's currently going on. You rationalize it all by saying CFR is big bad bully. Nonsense. They got pushed too far and will not put up with non-racing regions, autocrossers and posers trying to play divisional top dog vis-a-vis a gang approach on raod racing's nickel, at least not in Florida. It's only going to get worse for racers and that part sucks.

[charrbq]

Disingenuous statements and inuendo, designed to incite the uninformed and failing to produce factual documentation when asked to do so are trademarks of your numerous posts when you are in full attack mode. I guess you operate on the premise that if one throws enough crap on the wall some of it will probably stick. Give it a rest.

Capt. John
[/quote]
This is the same method of attack that Adolph Hitler and his propaganda ministers used prior to and during WW II against the Jewish people.

I understand that some think that Matt is really a nice guy wearing a$$hole clothes, but anyone with this kind of anger issues is dangerous. It's only a matter of time before the internet is no longer good enough to serve as an outlet for his hateful feelings.

[sgallimo]

...snip... You rationalize it all by saying CFR is big bad bully. Nonsense. They got pushed too far and will not put up with non-racing regions, autocrossers and posers trying to play divisional top dog vis-a-vis a gang approach on raod racing's nickel, at least not in Florida. ...snip...[/b]

Based on what proof? Please post copies of minutes from CFR Board of Directors meetings in which this proposal or pressure from other Region Executives changed CFR direction and/or policy. And while you're at it, please post copies of minutes from SEDIV meetings where this proposal was presented, voted on, and adopted.

[Mattberg]

Based on what proof? Please post copies of minutes from CFR Board of Directors meetings in which this proposal or pressure from other Region Executives changed CFR direction and/or policy. And while you're at it, please post copies of minutes from SEDIV meetings where this proposal was presented, voted on, and adopted.
[/b]

You can check earlier in the thread where I quoted our RE directly. And if I recall correctly, in a previous issue of our regional magazine (sorry, I don't keep them), his words were something like the region would be discussing leaving the division due to unwanted and undue influence from regions to the North. Furthermore, I also know what I've been told by regional and divisional officials first hand. So is CFR responsible for all the current issues? Certainly not. They've said publicly at least some of what is behind the current situation, albeit in a somewhat nebulous manner. But like Jake said, it's pretty easy to read between the lines.

And all this nonsense about meeting minutes, bylaws, official documentation, etc. is silly. Use some common sense. Something's happening and it's pretty obvious what's going on. CFR says they're looking into leaving the division, the famous "dead" proposal that clearly limits Florida racing is clearly not dead and CFR's position in the division is still as a significant minority which has always been a source of tension. The last one is a clearly a result of actions from the regions north of Florida acting as a group unwilling and unlikely to change such. So, add it all up and you have the strongest region, perhaps in the country, subject to BS from the other regions and they've had enough of.

I also don't remember any of this being as severe an issue before all of this nonsense started back in spring 2005, and now it is. Can you 'splain that Lucy? It seemed to me Florida was relatively happy and there was none of the current talk. Simple evaluation of the situation is needed, not bylaws, minutes and documentation. THe northern regions are the ones doing the pushing. Just because you haven't voted on it or you don't have it in your minutes doesn't mean it's not happening. Good Lord! Do have any idea how much discussion our national BoD has off the record? You also have to realize that Florida must always fear any vote or divisional action that might affect their road racing. The minority position leaves Florida powerless to do anything should push come to shove outside of NOT being part of the division.

My best guess would be that CFR might be posturing for an exit from the division and removing divisional influences and establishing "Florida" division elements in their place. Weening Florida racers off of the current divisional related events like ECR would be important. As far as not paying the division for the "big" popular races like Daytona might be part of it as well but if you can still pull the crowd and not pay ECR I'd say that's a bonus and it looks like that's the case. Lastly, by establishing a division of it's own I doubt any Florida racers would be headed out of state for anything but perhaps special events. Remember, as a separate division they'd be entitled to as many as ten nationals at what is soon to be five tracks (Sebring, Moroso, Homestead, Daytona and the new DEI track). And with a regional series of its own and their smaller budgets, getting regional racers out of Florida is going to be REALLY tough.

That makes a big loser in the whole deal, as I said almost two years ago, Atlanta and NC should they decide to stick it to FL. It sure looks like that's exactly what they did. Unfortunately the biggest loser, at least in the short term, will be the racer.

[Butch Kummer]

Matt has his opinion, I have mine. The major difference is I actually attended all the meetings (including the Secret One) that he can only provide hearsay evidence of. Be that as it may:

Matt states, "I also don't remember any of this being as severe an issue before all of this nonsense started back in spring 2005, and now it is. Can you 'splain that Lucy? It seemed to me Florida was relatively happy and there was none of the current talk."

If you look at the SARRC rules (available on the SEDIV website), you'll notice that rule 5.4 was added in January of 2004 (which is before all "this nonsense" started). That rule, which requires that all SARRC races be SCCA-sanctioned events, is a direct result of CFR threatening to run the August 2003 Daytona Double SARRC weekend under a NASA sanction since doing so was not specifically barred by the SARRC rules. I don't know all the reasons, but back then (early 2003) some within CFR were obviously reacting to being told how to run their race program and were making plans to take their ball and go home. In that instance cooler heads prevailed, but rule 5.4 was added to the SARRC rules to close that particular loophole.

I don't know how far back it goes, but there have been varying degrees of friction between Central Florida Region and the rest of SEDIV at least since I first got involved in SEDIV meetings back in 1997. Much as CalClub on the West Coast regularly threatens to leave SCCA, so has CFR. It's not CFR being a big bully, it's more along the lines of "We've got one of the most successful programs in the country, what are you guys bringing to the table that makes it better?" A lot of people despise Tony George because he pulled out of CART and "ruined" open-wheel racing in the US, but he owned the crown jewel of the CART series and had no say in how things were being run. It's a simple power struggle (or a desire to control one's own destiny) in both cases.

Although CFR RE Rick Balderson told me face-to-face at the 2007 Jekyll meetings that it's much ado about nothing, let's suppose CFR DOES split off from SEDIV. How does that make things worse for the racers (or Atlanta Region)? Other than National drivers, there aren't that many racers that leave the state of Florida now except for those "special" events like the SIC and the ARRC (and perhaps Barber now that it's back on the schedule). I would suggest that even MORE Florida National drivers would attend out-of-Florida National races because they'd now get credit for their two allowed OOD events without having to drive 18 hours to Texas, CenDiv or Summud Point. Some changes to the SARRC rules would be required should CFR continue to want to play, but removing the scheduling conflict rules would probably make even MORE weekends available to the racer. And the downside to this is...?

At this point in time, I'm not aware of any proposals on the table (or even being discussed) to further limit the number of races any region can host. Should any come up for discussion in the future, I will contiue to express my opposition to my RE. I'm also willing to wait out the current discussions going on within CFR. Regardless of the outcome of all this, SEDIV, Atlanta Region and NCR will survive. Will it change? Certainly. Is change a bad thing? Absolutely not. Change is not a nuisance, it's a fact of life.

And Matt - although there's no chance you'll change my mind and I'm sure I haven't changed yours, I'm equally sure that you'll continue to flail on this issue until your last breath. What I CANNOT figure out is why you haven't connected the dots and put Barry Hair in the middle of the current uprising in the NARRC series.

[lateapex911]

And Matt - although there's no chance you'll change my mind and I'm sure I haven't changed yours, I'm equally sure that you'll continue to flail on this issue until your last breath. ....... [/b]

LOL, you don't know Matt that well....there are PLENTY of other silly things that Matt will get all hot and bothered before his last breath expires. Take a trip on the interenet wayback machine and visit the old Prod site someday. You'll see Matt demanding resignations from people because they simply didn't respond to his internet bleatings and his facts that came from "sources I can't divulge"....

This is just the "scandal of the month"...I'm sure there will be more laughs down the road.

And Matt, really, what is it about autocrossers that you hate so much?? I've rarely witnessed such deep seated anger for a subset like that. Have you ever turned a wheel on the pylon strewn course in Kansas??

[loboracer]

So, do you still want to run an ECR in May. Come join Central Carolinas Region for a 2 hour 5 min run at CMP on May 27th.

Race is on Sunday, so you can be home on Monday for the holiday.

[Chris Wire]

Monday morning update:

424 total entrants for the weekend

Group 1 enduro:
104 registered drivers
79 cars

Group 2 enduro:

65 registered drivers
51 cars

Still have until Wednesday before late registration charges apply!

Not the glory days of a few years ago when we started 105 cars in the big-bore group (including SpeedSource, Blackforest, ISC and others), but at this point it doesn't look like the lack of an ECR sanction has affected the car counts much.

Counting the days.........can't wait!