No Ecr at Daytona in May

[ECR]

Re Memorial Monster; Steve,as an ECR entrant who comes from the (almost) southernmost point in the division I greatfully applaud anything you can do to expedite my exit after the event since,from what I have been told,I would have a 14 hour tow.This ,coupled with the fact that the ECR has been the last race of the weekend is what has kept me away in the past. If you are able to change the schedule,as you have suggested,I will enthusiastically support this event and recommend it to my fellow competitors. Thanks again, David Leira

[Knestis]

First, on the big picture: This "conversation" is more evidence that we are our own worst enemy. Seriously. The next time someone asks you about getting involved in SCCA Club Racing, have them read this stinker and watch their reaction. We've pretty much lost the same number of members that we've gained every year for ages now, and crap like this is just one more reason for that.

More specifically, as a sometimes-ECR-dedicated-enduro-guy, I applaud Steve E's thinking re: scheduling. Someone's got to be in the last race group of the weekend but if an enduro is seen as attractive to more distantly located entrants, there's clearly value to the program for that race NOT drawing the short straw. That said, if an enduro is added to a National weekend, and the Nat's are thought to be the big draw, the same logic applies...

K

[seckerich]

The support will be greatly appreciated. We will be working to make our races more driver friendly and give you what you want. The higher attendance allows us to keep your cost down in the future and provide better race venues. Please feel free to offer any suggestions at our events. We are working to offer more ECR opportunities in the near future as well.

[lateapex911]

Wow.

And us New Yorkers/Yankees are usually the ones said to have the behind the scenes back stories and other shady dealings! LOL

Butch, I met you breifly at RA at the ARRCs this year, and have enjoyed your part in the running of that event, as well as your posts here. When you meet Matt, you'll be surprised. Honestly, it's hard to know where to categorize him...in person, he's a normal guy (albeit with a bit of a temper, I guess), and he's more than willing to pitch in and help out a fellow racer. An engaging guy....

On the net, well, it's a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde situation. Odd coincidence that! I read his stuff, and honestly, when I finish, my head is spinning...so many grand statements with so little facts, and a whole lot of patting himself on the back.

I assure you, you'll be a little confused for a bit, but I know you'll enjoy his company, one way or another....

As to this situation, I have to say (and I'm sure I'm oversimplifying) that Robins explanation said more between the lines than it did in the lines. From an outsiders POV, it sounds to me like the CFR is a big player, and just got pissed off and decided to do it their way. Period. I'm sure behind it all, somebody said something that hurt somebodies ego and the next thing you know, someone's throwing their weight around, and in the end, the racers suffer.

If I'm right, that's too bad.

[rx7racer1]

As a member of CFR I have a problem with eliminating the ECR sanction
for the May event. I looked back at last year's results and it appears that
151 cars attended the event. According to DLB only 82 cars (not drivers)
are entered. Thats a huge financial loss to the region and I don't think that
makes any sense and I certainly hope that this was not a decision made by
one person.

[Mattberg]

As a member of CFR I have a problem with eliminating the ECR sanction
for the May event. I looked back at last year's results and it appears that
151 cars attended the event. According to DLB only 82 cars (not drivers)
are entered. Thats a huge financial loss to the region and I don't think that
makes any sense and I certainly hope that this was not a decision made by
one person.
[/b]

Yes it was. His name is Barry Hair, RE for the Alabama region.

[lateapex911]

How about some facts...some easy to follow facts that can be confirmed to back that statement up? Otherwise you're just on a hair....

[its66]

I think the big gap in the schedule may be as big a turn off for many as the ECR situation is. Has anyone asked Robin L why the change in the schedule??? I'd be curious to know what happened there.

That could be part of the "lost" entries. There are still almost three weeks left, I doubt we've seen all the entries.

[Hammer]

The schedule was changed to appease the National drivers. The National drivers have complained for years that both IT enduros were held before their races and that most of tne National races were held after lunch on Sunday. The schedule this year has the National races finshed before lunch on Sunday. The National racers also complain that the IT drivers get much more track time that weekend for a similar entry fee.

[Chris Wire]

The schedule was changed to appease the National drivers. The National drivers have complained for years that both IT enduros were held before their races and that most of tne National races were held after lunch on Sunday. The schedule this year has the National races finshed before lunch on Sunday. The National racers also complain that the IT drivers get much more track time that weekend for a similar entry fee.
[/b]

WWWHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Boo fricken hooooo!

Without us, they'd be shelling out $600 bucks for a National weekend!

Besides, don't they just parade around on their mule engines just to get a finish?

[charrbq]

It's particularly thoughtful of the National drivers to complain and get the schedule changed. After all, we all know that the world revolves around them. With the schedule as it stands, if someone is running one enduro and crewing for someone else in the other one, then someone gets screwed. Add that to picking up all the items needed for an enduro and getting out of there before the DIMS storm troopers come to run you out. Thanks National guys!

[sgallimo]

Yes it was. His name is Barry Hair, RE for the Alabama region.
[/b]

Mattberg, please post a copy of the minutes from the CFR Board of Directors meeting where Barry Hair decided to eliminate the ECR sanction for the race in question.

Also, could you provide a link to the CFR Bylaws, and or Operations Manual, section that states that Barry Hair specifically, or the Regional Executive for the Alabama Region in general, has a vote at CFR Board of Directors meetings.

[Capt.John]

Matt, you cetainly have a hard on for Barry Hair. Was you mother frightened by a person named Barry Hair before you were born? Such giant leaps of logic that continually seem to permeate your postings on this and other forums are at best comical. Why is some one from Palo Alto Calif so concerned about what is happening in SEDIV? Go straighten out San Francisco Region and Cal Club and give the SEDIV are rest from your vitriolic inuendo garbage.

Capt. John

[Mattberg]

...and I think everybody should know that Captain John supported and actually endorsed Barry's ideas and plans to reduce racing in Florida.

As to this situation, I have to say (and I'm sure I'm oversimplifying) that Robins explanation said more between the lines than it did in the lines. From an outsiders POV, it sounds to me like the CFR is a big player, and just got pissed off and decided to do it their way. Period. I'm sure behind it all, somebody said something that hurt somebodies ego and the next thing you know, someone's throwing their weight around, and in the end, the racers suffer.

If I'm right, that's too bad.
[/b]

Pretty much says it all. But we can't say we weren't warned.

[Krysd]

Capt. John,
DON'T RUN MATT OFF!!!!! Florida Region just spent a lot of money on BRAND NEW CALENDARS so we could time that POS neon of his. :026:

Seriously Matt, get some professional help with this Barry Hare thing, I mean it is one thing to have a hair up you’re a$$, but this is ridiculous.

Krys Dean

[sgallimo]

And while we're at it, I fully support Fred's ability to present his proposal. Why? Certainly not because I agree with it. Nor because I think it would solve the issues it perports to address. I support his ability to propose his ideas because (1) he's a paying member of our club and (2) I signed up to be part of the leadership of my portion of our club and part of that job is to listen to member ideas. We are duty bound to listen to all of the proposals, even the ones that don't fit.

Frankly, I don't care if Barry has a copy of Fred's proposal tattooed on his ass, it does not mean that it, or either of them, was responsible for CFR's manipulation of their own club racing program. It was a proposal and it was NOT adopted.

[Mattberg]

So the proposal IS back on the table. Thank you.

I'll ignore the insult Krys. I did win the ECR and a nice check in that POS.

[Butch Kummer]

In keeping my promise to try and be more aware of Barry Hair's nefarious plots to undermine ALL racing in SEDIV, I have to wonder if he's also behind the movement to require participation at less-subscribed events at Lime Rock Park to qualify for NARRC Double Points! Perhaps Barry's influence is even more pervasive than even Matt knows? And while I'm sorry to see NEDIV embroiled in a similar controversy, it's somehow comforting to know that other divisions (and regions) are being creative in their reactions to local situations (i.e. - all dogs have fleas, it's just a question of how you want to scratch them).

I'm tired of beating this particular horse. Based on pre-entries in DLB (counts are well over 100 total), it certainly appears at this time that CFR is correct in their assumption that attendance will not be substantially impacted by not making their annual Enduro an ECR-sanctioned event. Apparently racers want to run Daytona regardless of what stickers happen to be on their car. Remember attendance at this event may also be inflated due to no August event being available in 2007, so it will take until 2008 until the full impact of CFR's shifting SARRC sanctions and dropping out of ECR is determined.

Matt contends that Barry Hair is behind the plot while I am confident it's totally a CFR reaction to local issues. Time will tell which of us is correct, but in the meantime I will continue my efforts to build ALL racing programs in SEDIV. If some of that carries over to other parts of the country (like my "consultant" role in the Mid-Ohio IT/Spec Festival), then that's all the better.

And Matt, I'll repeat that my RE has heard nothing about a resufacing of the Fred Clark proposal. I believe any mention of support is a general statement supporting ANY member's right to present a proposal, not this one specifically.

I promise to give it a rest. Will you?

[sgallimo]

So the proposal IS back on the table. ... snip ...
[/b]

Based on what proof?

[Capt.John]

Matt.... Not to confuse you with fact .....that is a concept you seem to only pick facets of at your convenience.... but; I was the RE of the Florida Region( not to be confused with the Central Florida Region) when the Fred Clark PROPASAL to make changes in the scheduling of racing events was brought to the floor at the Mid-Year meeting in Atlanta in 2005. My Race Director, Mike Finn, was also in attendance. We saw a little sheet of paper that was being passed around with the 1 NAT. 1 SARRC 1 DR School 1 Regional format that you insist is a diabolical plot masterminded by the Devil Incarnate himself, Barry Hair. Mike and I agreed that there was no way that idea was going to fly and we DID NOT SUPPORT IT; NOR WOULD WE IN THE FUTURE!! Neither of us were against dialogue and discussion to achieve a better SEDIV schedule if possible. The RE's agreed to approach the subject at the SEDIV Convention at Jekyll in 2006. This was the "Great Secret Meeting" held at the Jekyll Island Club on Friday night. Matt you carried on as though you had uncovered a clandestine plot to emasculate the racing in SEDIV as a result of you abilities as a super sleuth. And who were those behind this dastardly act... BARRY HAIR and MARTIN BARTLETT, of course..... I had since stepped down as RE for the FL. Region and my replacement John Zuccarelli had been briefed about the PROPOSAL and did ot support it either.

I do not hold any elected position in the FL. Region at this time, so how I am working in consort with Barry Hair to reduce and undermine the racing in the Fl. Region appears to be another one of those "giant leaps of logic" you are so noted for. The Region chooses not to hold events during the summer July-August-Sept. because of the extreme heat here in South Florida. The volunteers have had a long 6 month seige with the SCCA events, Pro events as well as other activities. Ther seems to be something happening every weekend. The Region is willing to hold events on holidays and at the end of the year. There was a double SARRC race at Moroso Dec. 30-31 2006. I do support an aggressive race program in both the Fl. and Central Florida Regions to benefit the drivers and members. To make that happen, I bust my ass serving as a Steward, a worker, a member of our Race Board, and a competitor. To suggest that I somehow I have a hidden agenda and am working in cahoots with the Emperor of the Evil Empire, Barry Hair, to bring about the downfall of SCCA racing in Florida is ludicrous. Disingenuous statements and inuendo, designed to incite the uninformed and failing to produce factual documentation when asked to do so are trademarks of your numerous posts when you are in full attack mode. I guess you operate on the premise that if one throws enough crap on the wall some of it will probably stick. Give it a rest.

Capt. John