No Ecr at Daytona in May

[sgallimo]

...snip ...It appears that losing an ECR date may be only the beginning of major changes in the race schedule within the state of Florida ...snip ....
[/b]

Just remember that CFR did not "lose" the ECR date. CFR Board of Directors "chose" to give it up. No one, Barry Hair, Martin Bartlett, or otherwise, "took" the ECR race away from CFR.

[its66]

Just remember that CFR did not "lose" the ECR date. CFR Board of Directors "chose" to give it up. No one, Barry Hair, Martin Bartlett, or otherwise, "took" the ECR race away from CFR.
[/b]

I realize that. Even though you quoted me, I didn't mention Barry, or any other individual as being responsible for taking the ECR away.

My point is that there have already been several changes.(Turkey Trot/SARRC, Daytona double SARRC, etc). If one reads the excerpt from the "Checker", there is a request to change the manner in which the race schedule is decided. IF this request becomes practice, I would imagine(IMHO) that the schedule would see even more changes.

Honest questions--What about the August Double SARRC at Daytona? That event was changed to a regional prior to losing the date due to repaving. Is that as big a problem as the ECR? Turkey Trot-typically has some of the largest fields possible-400+ entrants--now the Halloween race is a SARRC instead.

Just my opinion, FWIW

[GKR_17]

From what I can find, there were 151 total cars entered in both enduro groups last year at Daytona; so at $25 or $30 each, CFR had to pay the ECR series between $3775 and $4530. Assuming entry fees are similar to last year, the average car will probably bring in about $210 (I assume about 3/4 will pay $30 extra for a second driver).

By those numbers the break even point is between 18 and 22 cars (probably 19 since so few register for the series).

I count at least 12 (maybe 14) cars that aren't going so far.

Leira: 8 cars
Robertson: 2 cars
Aspegren: 1 car
Stiegel/Fine: 1 car

maybe:
May: 1 car
McPeters/White: 1 car


Any more non-entries?

[RX3]

ECR

This is some of the information I got before the other site went down maybe they will put the information back up and we can look at it again or Carol can help us out. I do not see many entrants.

The 2006 ECR final points show that 420 Drivers accumulated ECR points, (including 40 in SRF). Of those 420 drivers, only 48 were eligible for prize money (11.5%), which I assume means these guys registered as ECR entrants. Of the 48 registered entrants, only 5 were members of CFR and 4 were members of Florida region.

So, ECR you are one of the 4 members from Florida region or Central Fl.?

If I am wrong someone please show me the numbers.[u]

[ECR]

As an aside......For those of you considering theCFR enduro at Daytona....look at the schedule...qualifying before lunch Saturday,racing at the end of Sunday...the time in between.........PRICELESS

[titanium]

Where did you find the schedule?
I dont see it on the CFR or DLB website.

[Hammer]

It is on the DLB website now

[handfulz28]

so at $25 or $30 each, CFR had to pay the ECR series between $3775 and $4530.[/b]

Aren't the enduro entry fees always higher than the "regional only" fee? I'm guessing not one dime comes out of a region's pocket, it's all paid for by the entrants. The regions are just middle-men in the collection process.

As for this year's Daytona "enduro" schedule...what a joke! I love Daytona (as a track) and was actually looking forward to running this enduro. But if I've got to be there Friday to get a decent spot, qualify late Saturday morning, then d!ck around for the next day and a half only to be the last race on sunday?
Boycott the event, or boycott qualifying, or show up early Sunday morning to register. Enduros seem to be the red-headed stepchild of the region, but I bet they'd be a cash cow if treated fairly.

I thought I was done with that rant but I can't help it...I was at the NASA event at Homestead yesterday. From a racing perspective there's still lots of room "to grow" so to speak. And every event will have its issues. But this crap with SCCA just continues to sour me on the whole "club" racing idea. And for those that don't know me, I've been a licensed racer for ten years, including a few as a National racer. I stopped running Nationals and stayed with a regional-only program because I thought things might be a little "easier". But with all this political bickering, it's not fun anymore.

[seckerich]

Your regions officers work for you the members. If you do not agree with their decisions and feel they are not properly representing you VOTE THEM OUT. Get your members together and let them know how you feel and expect them to listen.

[Kolin Aspegren]

As an aside......For those of you considering theCFR enduro at Daytona....look at the schedule...qualifying before lunch Saturday,racing at the end of Sunday...the time in between.........PRICELESS


--------------------

El Cubano Rapido


Now that it too funny,lol


Kolin

[ECR]

What'ts so funny?

[Curmudgeon]

OK, now let me get this straight, you put on an event that draws 140 cars, you collect $215.00 from each driver which equals $30,100 and it costs you approximately $600.00 (12% of 140 drivers) in ECR fees, the CFR pockets $29,500 dollars, OR you put on a NON ECR event that only draws 90 cars, you collect $215.00 per car for a total of $19,250.00 , you don’t have to pay the ECR fees so CFR only LOOSES $10,250.00 dollars for the region and you throw the CFR members who DO participate in ECR under the bus?

Something is broke alright, but it sounds like the CFR Race Director to me. <_<

[zracre]

I am not one to get all political, but this just seems wrong...I will probably go just because I like driving there...but if the top guys do not go it is no fun...We the majority of the members are the ones suffering at the hands of those in control. How does the ECR make the region look bad? Every one I know enjoys the event and looks forward to it every year. If the scoring takes too long or if people just dont get along from ECR/CFR put people in place that look out for the members interests...i.e RACING instead of butting heads with each others power trips. Joe Blow from wherever N.C wants a cool race and to get ECR points. Now they don&#39;t go because of the removal of the ECR status...I am the one who suffers as now I have one less competitor. I do not really know how it works inside (I do not like politics...) but it seems like something that can be fixed the right way. Who do I need to buy beer for to make this happen?

[Mattberg]

Just remember that CFR did not "lose" the ECR date. CFR Board of Directors "chose" to give it up. No one, Barry Hair, Martin Bartlett, or otherwise, "took" the ECR race away from CFR.
[/b]

Absolute horse hockey. Martin Bartlett and Barry Hair along with the little non-racing regions the recruited are 100% responsible. I warned you it was happening and you ignored it. THere will be plenty more problems and cancellations. I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to see Martin and Barry quit to avoid blame for f&#39;ing up the whole division so that their solo programs could survive because that was what this was all about.

[Chris Wire]

I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to see Martin and Barry quit to avoid blame for f&#39;ing up the whole division so that their solo programs could survive because that was what this was all about.
[/b]

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm...

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...topic=11076&hl=

[Butch Kummer]

As usual, there&#39;s no sense in trying to discuss things rationally with Matt. He blames Barry and the freshly departed Martin for the Florida SARRC schedule as well as the demise of ECR at Daytona and no amount of talk will change his mind. But if Martin was destroying the SEDIV racing program to protect his Solo program, why would he resign just as he&#39;s succeeded?

It&#39;s been known for a LONG time (long before Barry and Martin were elected) that CFR in general feels the rest of of SEDIV is a burden on their racing program. Through the fortunes of population, good weather and a couple of historic racetracks, they have close to 400 entries at each of their events. Perhaps they are correct that they could have successful programs even if no one north of Gainesville ever darkened their doorsteps, and they&#39;re willing to take the chance to find out. The changes in the 2007 CFR racing program came from within the region and are NOT due to any new outside influences brought about by Barry Hair, Martin Bartlett or anyone else outside Florida.

Not that Matt will believe any of this...

[its66]

..snip...It&#39;s been known for a LONG time (long before Barry and Martin were elected) that CFR in general feels the rest of of SEDIV is a burden on their racing program. Through the fortunes of population, good weather and a couple of historic racetracks, they have close to 400 entries at each of their events. Perhaps they are correct that they could have successful programs even if no one north of Gainesville ever darkened their doorsteps, and they&#39;re willing to take the chance to find out. The changes in the 2007 CFR racing program came from within the region and are NOT due to any new outside influences brought about by Barry Hair, Martin Bartlett or anyone else outside Florida.

Not that Matt will believe any of this...
[/b]

Butch,
Just a question on this, especially the highlighted part....How is the rest of the SEDiv a "burden" on CFR&#39;s racing program? Is SEDiv trying to limit the number of races which CFR(or any region) conducts? Is SEDiv trying to change SARRC dates? Is SEDiv trying to control or change the racing program in the state of Florida? If not, then I can&#39;t figure why there is this supposed feeling of burden.

As a member of CFR, and a member of this forum, it does seem more than just a coincidence that some of the things Matt said a long time ago were published in last month&#39;s Checker.

" There are two Divisional issues I need to let our newer members know about. One
is the race realignment proposal made by Regions to the north of us. The other
is the spec tire for SM regional racing. The race realignment proposal was
suggested in the 3rd quarter 2006, and the copy I have came to me from a
member in the Buccaneer Region, which
is in area 12. Each of the 8 racing regions in SEDiv would get 4 events.

1 National
1 SARRC
1 Drivers School
1 Regional weekend.

The remaining race dates would be decided by a lottery drawing with
overworked workers and families in mind and attention should be given to NO
racing around the year end holidays. No National or SARRC events for the
following year after each groups “runoff” until Jan. 1 of the following year."

So, I&#39;m torn as to whether to feel that the SEDiv or the northern regions are truly a burden. (burden is probably the wrong term either way) Are they trying to change our race schedule? Are we going to lose race weekends? Am I going to have to either double my towing budget(not likely) and miss more time off work(also not likely) to make the same number of events, or will I just race less. If what Matt said is wrong, and what Rick said is wrong, then I suppose I have nothing to worry about.

I am rational and have thought at length on this issue. I have not blamed Barry, Martin, or any other individual or group. I just want to know what is going on. Is Rick B&#39;s report of the proposal correct? Or is he making up the same stories that Matt told us last year?

To the others, sorry to drag this out once again.....but the door was already open.

[Chris Wire]

It&#39;s no secret that on a National/ECR weekend the ECR is the red-headed stepchild of the bunch. It&#39;s pretty much filler. Having said that, it stands to reason that it falls to control of the event first, with economics and politics a distant tie for second.

Therefore, given that CFR has one of the most successful racing programs of any region in the country, it is not surprising that they might want to maintain a little more control over one of their premier events, even if it is at the expense of some entries/money, and especially if there is a difference of opinion on certain matters of how the race weekend should be conducted.

I don&#39;t doubt that there were outside circumstances that lent influence in their decision. And while Butch says that the decision came from within CFR, and I believe that it&#39;s true, I also believe it&#39;s naive to think that the recent stance within the division with regard to scaling back of successful racing programs in favor of a "lottery for remaining events" did not factor into that decision. I also think that Butch is wrong to think that CFR doesn&#39;t want anyone north of Gainesville to ever darken their doorsteps. I believe that the region welcomes racers equally from anywhere in the country; witness the perennial success of the January National at Sebring which draws many racers from the snowbelt. I also believe it&#39;s the politics and undue outside influencing of a very stable and successful race schedule that the region would rather not have to deal with.

Whatever side of the fence you stood on regarding Mattberg&#39;s position and that of his detractors, recent events have at least shown that the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle of "the sky is falling and Barry Hair did it" and "pay no attention to the men behind the curtain".

Personally, I would still like to see the race be an ECR, as I have enjoyed many battles with Tom Fowler and others from outside the region over the years. But I don&#39;t have a dog in the fight this year as I&#39;m sitting this one out. (Unless someone&#39;s got a cheap seat available.....wink, wink)

[Curmudgeon]

Butch is exactly right, Hell SCCA National office has little or no control over CFR, let alone a couple of small virtually non racing regions, and believe me when I say Barry Hair has NO CHANCE of telling Robin Langlotz what to do, this is a CFR power play, plain and simple and BTW, I have spoken to John Zuccarrelli RE for Florida Region and he told me in no uncertain terms that Florida Region had ZERO interest in splitting SEDIV and joining CFR in a "Florida Division".

With all the other problems we have with a shortage of workers, new sound ordinances springing up, the rising cost of sanctions and insurance, the last thing we need is anyone buying into this cocamamie conspiracy theory Berg has been trying to sell for the last two years, consider the source and let it go, concentrate on making things better.

[Chris Wire]

With all the other problems we have with a shortage of workers, new sound ordinances springing up, the rising cost of sanctions and insurance, the last thing we need is anyone buying into this cocamamie conspiracy theory Berg has been trying to sell for the last two years, consider the source and let it go, concentrate on making things better.
[/b]

Fine then. Maybe you (the unnamed Curmudgeon) or Butch could answer the questions posed by its66. I think they&#39;re pretty reasonable.

Regardless of the level of "cocamamie conspiracy" involved, it&#39;s pretty clear that the division is actively attempting to alter what are very successful racing programs in favor of the what they consider to be the "greater good" (where have we all heard that before?).