What is ITR and ITE

[23racer]

Just a question to try to determine where my car would fit in if I decide to come south of the border to play with you guys. Try to imagine a 1991 RX7 built to todays WC rules. Main differences between my car and an ITS car is welded in 10 point cage, no dash (like an E-Prod car), bridge port 4port (about 230 RWHP), ITB's, fully programeable fuel and air, Anthony Woodford Racing E-Prod nose and WC rear wing. Weighs about 2300 lbs fully fueled, without driver. Lexan rear glass. I run on Toyo's 15x7 wheels and use stock brakes, pickup points, poly bushings, stock type shocks with coilovers trans and diff. At Mosport I run about 3 seconds a lap off of a top WC touring time or about mid pack WC Touring.

Is there a class I can play in down in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio or Michigan?

Just wondering as I presently run in the Canadian Touring Car Championship and looking to spread out a bit.

Eric

[Bill Miller]

There are probably a few places you can run your car. You're not going to be able to run it in ITR, but you most likely will be able to run it in ITE, but you'll need to check the specific rules for class for the Region that's hosting the race (should be in the supps, if not, contact the registrar). Another place you might be able to run the car is D-Prepared. If it's actually built to a specific WC VCTS, you're in. Otherwise, check the Prepared rules.

[dickita15]

From the sounds of what you describe you can run ITE in Narrc (NHIS, LRP, Pocono) as long as the car meets or exceeds SCCA GCR IT safety levels, uses DOT tires and is legal in some other series elsewhere it fits in our version of ITE. You need to have a set of rules from your home series. You will run in the big bore race group.

[23racer]

BIG BORE!!!! I only have 1.3 litres, LOL. :P


Seriously, I understand where I fit as an ITE Big Bore car but do they have large grids of cars and what types? If I have to make some cage changes and add a dash to run in D Prepared. I already run on DOT's. I think I can make it fit the rules, do they have large grids. The last time the SCCA Nationals were running at Mosport, it was about 3 cars per class. That ain't fun for me. I like close fun fast racing. At Mosport I pull close to 130 going into Turn 8, breath on the throttle and stand back on it. Pucker City.

Eric

[dickita15]

The Big Bore group in Narrc is varied. GT1,2,3, A Sedan, SPO, ITE. You may not be the slowest. There are some other of the wall ITE cars and the GT3s to beat up on. I am not sure if DP is going to run with Big Bore or not.

[23racer]

Dick, thanks for the information. I am certain I meet the safety requirements and it does look like a fun group to run in. Especially if D Prepared runs in that group as well, as I expect that I would run similar laptimes to a D Prep car.

Is there anything closer that I could run at, like Watkins Glen, Mid Ohio or VIR? All these tracks are within 8 hours tow. Lime Rock would be a good 12 - 15 hours. The fuel costs for my tow vehicle would exceed the running costs of the car, LOL.

Anybody here coming up to the SCCA Nationals at Mosport this summer?

Eric

[JohnRW]

As mentioned, at the tracks in the northeast, you'd fall in ITE (if you meet the sponsoring Region's ITE rules) or "Super Production" (an overlooked but nationally-GCR-listed, but "regional-only class") - aka "SP".

ITE & big-bore SP group grids at Watkins Glen can be 10-15 cars...sometimes more. You'll be mixed in with a bunch of other classes too, but lap times will be in the same range. Last time I checked, ITE at Mid-Ohio reflected the same rules as in the northeast ("must comply with some other recognized sanctioning body's rules...and you have to prove it"), search NEOhio Region SCCA's web site and you'll find mention it. Also in the same range as WGI, Mid-O and LRP is Nelson Ledges (about an hour south of Ashtabula, Ohio), but grids will generally be smaller there.

VIR is quite a haul, compared to the aforementioned tracks. Somebody from the mid-Atlantic or southeast can comment on the size of their ITE or SP grids.

I'll be up for the Mosport National this year (it's still a 'tentative' on the schedule). Ran the last few, but haven't raced in Mosport since the last Nat'l there in 2001 (2002 ?...blurrrr...). Raced nearly every track from Canada to Florida, Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi, and Mosport is my favorite...absolute favorite. Probably helps that I made my 2nd "most memorable race pass" on the last lap in the middle of Moss Corner, and held off a Nat'l race winner all the way up the back straight to the checker. Har. Still giggling about that one...

[dj10]

Dick, thanks for the information. I am certain I meet the safety requirements and it does look like a fun group to run in. Especially if D Prepared runs in that group as well, as I expect that I would run similar laptimes to a D Prep car.

Is there anything closer that I could run at, like Watkins Glen, Mid Ohio or VIR? All these tracks are within 8 hours tow. Lime Rock would be a good 12 - 15 hours. The fuel costs for my tow vehicle would exceed the running costs of the car, LOL.

Anybody here coming up to the SCCA Nationals at Mosport this summer?

Eric

[/b]

Hey Eric, do me a favor please. Can you check with the organization that run the most at Mosport and see what an BMW 325 SCCA ITR car would run in (class) and if it would be competitive. I miss that track, it is my all time favorite. If not just point me to a spot and I'll try and research it.

Thanks

[23racer]

Dan, the CASC runs the Regional races at Mosport and you can access their website at www.casc.on.ca The races are run to a bracket racing style. No real performance rules but you determine which class you want to race in based on expected lap time and then you race against the other cars in your class as part of one big race. Usual entry fees are $350 Cdn and you average about 90 minutes of track time with 3 20 minute races, a 20 minute qualifying and a 10 - 15 minute practice. There are also 2 3-Hour Enduros run each year. One in May and the other in September. These enduros are in addition to regular racing so in one weekend you could run almost 5 hours of track time for under $600 Cdn. All of the weekends are extremely well organised and run to Pro Level safety and marshalling levels. An SCCA license is excepted at par, LOL.

Usual grid sizes can be up to 60 cars and it is very fast and rather exciting with everything from Porsche GT1R's to bone stock Sentras out on track. I expect your BMW would run in GTB and run in the mid 1:35's, sorta like my car.

I run in a series known as the Canadian Touring Car Championship, our version of WC. We run to weight, tire size, displacement and aero rules. Most engine, drivetrain and suspension rules are open. The tires are speced as Toyo RA1's. It is a Pro series with 8 races held at the Champ car race in Toronto, Mosport, Shannonville and the new track Calabogie. The rules are pretty open and an ITR car on Toyo's would be more than legal, in fact a bit underprepared as long as it is under 2.8L's for Super Touring. Over 2.8 would put you in GT. You have to be able to run WC times for Touring or GT to be competitive. You can get more information on this series at www.touringcar.ca

It costs $300 to register and entry fees are $350 Cdn per race.

Ontario racing in a nutshell. Still think I want to come down and do more south of the border. I have run at Seattle, Portland and Thunderhill, but for some reason not back east where I live.

Eric

[mlytle]

Hey Eric, do me a favor please. Can you check with the organization that run the most at Mosport and see what an BMW 325 SCCA ITR car would run in (class) and if it would be competitive. I miss that track, it is my all time favorite. If not just point me to a spot and I'll try and research it.

Thanks
[/b]

bmwcca runs there at least once a summer. you would be in the IP class.....

[Andy Bettencourt]

...or "Super Production" (an overlooked but nationally-GCR-listed, but "regional-only class") - aka "SP".[/b]

It is? What page? We were thinking of a SPU Miata for fun...

ITE & big-bore SP group grids at Watkins Glen can be 10-15 cars...sometimes more. You'll be mixed in with a bunch of other classes too, but lap times will be in the same range. Last time I checked, ITE at Mid-Ohio reflected the same rules as in the northeast ("must comply with some other recognized sanctioning body's rules...and you have to prove it"), search NEOhio Region SCCA's web site and you'll find mention it. Also in the same range as WGI, Mid-O and LRP is Nelson Ledges (about an hour south of Ashtabula, Ohio), but grids will generally be smaller there.[/b]

This gets increasingly easier with the NASA PT classes.

[JohnRW]

It is? What page? We were thinking of a SPU Miata for fun...
This gets increasingly easier with the NASA PT classes.
[/b]

Don't have a 2007 GCR right here, but SP is at 17.1.10 (page 95) in the 2006 GCR.

(EDIT - Looked it up...it's at 9.1.11 in the 2007 GCR...page 69)

The one hazard with NASA classing (and I hold a NASA comp. license, along with SCCA etc.) is that their classes seem to change on a whim. My old 'PS' VW was competitive...but then 'PS' suddenly went away. They're sorta the polar opposite of SCCA classing - i.e. glacial pace of changes.

[dj10]

Dan, the CASC runs the Regional races at Mosport and you can access their website at www.casc.on.ca The races are run to a bracket racing style. No real performance rules but you determine which class you want to race in based on expected lap time and then you race against the other cars in your class as part of one big race. Usual entry fees are $350 Cdn and you average about 90 minutes of track time with 3 20 minute races, a 20 minute qualifying and a 10 - 15 minute practice. There are also 2 3-Hour Enduros run each year. One in May and the other in September. These enduros are in addition to regular racing so in one weekend you could run almost 5 hours of track time for under $600 Cdn. All of the weekends are extremely well organised and run to Pro Level safety and marshalling levels. An SCCA license is excepted at par, LOL.

Usual grid sizes can be up to 60 cars and it is very fast and rather exciting with everything from Porsche GT1R's to bone stock Sentras out on track. I expect your BMW would run in GTB and run in the mid 1:35's, sorta like my car.

I run in a series known as the Canadian Touring Car Championship, our version of WC. We run to weight, tire size, displacement and aero rules. Most engine, drivetrain and suspension rules are open. The tires are speced as Toyo RA1's. It is a Pro series with 8 races held at the Champ car race in Toronto, Mosport, Shannonville and the new track Calabogie. The rules are pretty open and an ITR car on Toyo's would be more than legal, in fact a bit underprepared as long as it is under 2.8L's for Super Touring. Over 2.8 would put you in GT. You have to be able to run WC times for Touring or GT to be competitive. You can get more information on this series at www.touringcar.ca

It costs $300 to register and entry fees are $350 Cdn per race.

Ontario racing in a nutshell. Still think I want to come down and do more south of the border. I have run at Seattle, Portland and Thunderhill, but for some reason not back east where I live.

Eric
[/b]

Thanks for the info Eric. I did some quick calculations and I'd be able to race at 2550# and couldn't have more than 300 hp! LOL all I'd need is a quick 30K to make the adjustments and I'm there. I remember when they had club racing there and it was affordable. Now you need a WC Car.

Thanks Marshall, but racing in IP leave me non-competitive also. I didn't like Porsche Club racing and from what I read in the BMW forums, I'd doubt if I'd like BMW Club either.

[dickita15]

just remeber SP requires full GT or Prod saftey stuff, fuel cell fire system as such

[Andy Bettencourt]

The one hazard with NASA classing (and I hold a NASA comp. license, along with SCCA etc.) is that their classes seem to change on a whim. My old 'PS' VW was competitive...but then 'PS' suddenly went away. They're sorta the polar opposite of SCCA classing - i.e. glacial pace of changes. [/b]

But that shouldn't matter. I don't think the rules say it needs to be an 'active' class. As long as you provide docs that say it fit, you should be fine.

[JohnRW]

Dick - you going to be at the Roundtable this weekend ? I'll look for you....

Andy...I missed the drift of your orginal post - "use the NASA classes as entre to ITE"...gotcha...good point...the light just went on in my head....which look like sidemarkers in the dark....

[dickita15]

Dick - you going to be at the Roundtable this weekend ? I'll look for you....
[/b]

sorry no, i have to handle other business