Entry Costs Comparison

[seckerich]

I would like feedback from people on the cost for entry to races in different areas of the country and the associated track rental cost. I do not want to turn this into a "I'm getting screwed by SCCA" but rather see what the cost per car is for our different race venues. Please limit it to cost for a single and double weekend with track rental cost. I understand all the variables involved with the other cost for a race weekend. I am trying to get a better idea of the base cost to continue to hold races. I will be more than willing to share this compiled information with other regions. A pm with track cost is no problem. Thanks in advance for your help.

[dickita15]

I think you need one more piece of data and that is average car counts. For a region putting on a race the fixed costs are huge and the variable costs are marginal. A swing as small as 20 cars can mean the difference to the region of success or failure.
One other small thing to keep in mind with track rent is some are all inclusive and some are al a carte

[gran racing]

Typically the date of the event will impact things. At least here in the NE, a June event will cost more than a November event.

[seckerich]

Thanks Dick. I understand the variables. I know one track we rent has all the fire, wrecker, and security included while others have list of options. I am more interested in the entry fees that regions are having to charge to make a profit. Would like the feedback on what the actual entry fee is. I have heard from as low as $150 to highs of $300 plus. Just a post on what you have to pay would be a start.

[dickita15]

LRP 2007 rent Friday and Saturday $53,000 all inclusive (top that ) 2007 entry fees probably 350-395
NHIS $8,800 per day plus insurance, ambulance and wreckers 2007 entry fees probably 200-280

[dj10]

LRP 2007 rent Friday and Saturday $53,000 all inclusive (top that ) 2007 entry fees probably 350-395
[/b]

Is it me or does this sound F&(!#% !!! This sounds highter than Mid Ohio. For some reason I'm thinking 35K for Mid Ohio per weekend. I'll check.
Steve, I asked Todd from the Central Div if he could respond to your requests.

[Bill Miller]

LRP 2007 rent Friday and Saturday $53,000 all inclusive (top that ) 2007 entry fees probably 350-395
NHIS $8,800 per day plus insurance, ambulance and wreckers 2007 entry fees probably 200-280
[/b]

Almost $400 for a Regional AND you have to take a day (an extra day?) off work?

[erlrich]

LRP 2007 rent Friday and Saturday $53,000 all inclusive (top that ) 2007 entry fees probably 350-395
[/b]

Holy spit, batman, is that for a single race?!?!? I guess LRP just got moved to the bottom of my "must-race" tracks.

IIRC, both of the MARRS doubles, at SP and VIR, were only just over $300 in '06. We've been informed the fees for a single regional at SPR will be going from $195 last year to $225 this year, so I'm guessing the Labor Day double will probably go up proportionally. I have no idea what we pay SP for a weekend.

[dj10]

Holy spit, batman, is that for a single race?!?!? I guess LRP just got moved to the bottom of my "must-race" tracks.
[/b]

If I were the NE region I'd be moving all events to different tracks and I sure would move the NE Runoffs from LRP to Pocono. I also bet you'd get better attendents. Hell, Bridgehampton I sure would be a better track if it were open. Maybe that amount 350 to 395 is in Pecos?

[Bill Miller]

Holy spit, batman, is that for a single race?!?!? I guess LRP just got moved to the bottom of my "must-race" tracks.

IIRC, both of the MARRS doubles, at SP and VIR, were only just over $300 in '06. We've been informed the fees for a single regional at SPR will be going from $195 last year to $225 this year, so I'm guessing the Labor Day double will probably go up proportionally. I have no idea what we pay SP for a weekend.
[/b]

A 15% increase? What are you getting for that extra $30? And IIRC, that's more than they gone up, in total, since 2000.

[dickita15]

If I were the NE region I'd be moving all events to different tracks and I sure would move the NE Runoffs from LRP to Pocono. I also bet you'd get better attendents. Hell, Bridgehampton I sure would be a better track if it were open. Maybe that amount 350 to 395 is in Pecos?
[/b]

well you would think so but dates are hard to come by up here and poccono does not draw the cars.

[lateapex911]

If I were the NE region I'd be moving all events to different tracks and I sure would move the NE Runoffs from LRP to Pocono. I also bet you'd get better attendents. Hell, Bridgehampton I sure would be a better track if it were open. Maybe that amount 350 to 395 is in Pecos?

[/b]

Well, New England Region is what, the 2nd largest Region in the country? Meaning: Lots of members, lots of racers. Lets say the "average NER guy lives a bit west of Boston. That makes a tow to pocono a REALLY long proposition, esp as he has to get near NYC on a Friday afternoon. And lots of guys just can't tow 6 hrs each way to such a crappy destination..their wives and families just say no.

So, if NER were to race in Pocono, it would add roughly 6 hours to the average tow, and cost almost $100 in gas.....and piss off already semi intolerant families, and so on.

Then, we have to remember that Pocono SUCKS! On ALL fronts.

So, Lime Rock is exercising it's muscles and charging what the market will bear. If WE don't take the dates, they WILL sell out to BMWCCA, PCA, Audi club, Trackmasters, Emra, SCDA, and on and on.

Yup, it sucks, What is NER doing? Shifting some races to NHIS. To folks like me in the NYC area, thats not attractive...long tow, and while it's better than Pocono, it still sucks compared to WGI, LRP, RA, VIR, etc. As a result, this year I'll actually look to toher events, like the Mid Ohio event, WGI, Road Atlanta, and ViR

What else can we do? Well, for a number of years, NER has been searching for a site to build it's own track, and things are progressing nicely, at last. I know that all the permits aren't approved yet, but the town is positive and things are moving along. It's a huge undertaking, but the region MUST be proactive if it wants to race in 5 or 10 years.

A 15% increase? What are you getting for that extra $30? And IIRC, that's more than they gone up, in total, since 2000.

[/b]

Ummm...they're getting to race.

Things cost more, for one thing, and there are more participants vying for the same dates for another.

[erlrich]

A 15% increase? What are you getting for that extra $30? And IIRC, that's more than they gone up, in total, since 2000.

[/b]

Bill - Gregg and the others on the comp committee are working on getting a more detailed breakdown of the increase, but the following reasons were given when they asked:

• $3-5 for an included Sat. night dinner. Essentially the "worker dinner" becomes a dinner for everyone.

Oh, and Steve I apologize for the highjack - we should probably start another thread if we want to discuss this one further.

[seckerich]

No need to apologise--this is exactly what kind of information I was looking for. I am working hard in our region (CCR) to keep cost in line and still provide plenty of track time for the dollar. It has been a real eye opener to see the increase in costs for a race weekend compared to just last year. I do not want to see people stop racing because we reach the point they can no longer justify the expense. Thanks to all for the input so far.

[Bill Miller]

Bill - Gregg and the others on the comp committee are working on getting a more detailed breakdown of the increase, but the following reasons were given when they asked:

• $3-5 for an included Sat. night dinner. Essentially the "worker dinner" becomes a dinner for everyone.

Oh, and Steve I apologize for the highjack - we should probably start another thread if we want to discuss this one further.
[/b]

Thanks Earl. While I haven't compiled the numbers for '06, IIRC, the average car count for the '04 or '05 season was ~250 cars per event for the races held at Summit Point. That works out to an extra $7500/year. Or, if you look at it another way, $30 x 6 (number of weekends at SP) = $180. That's almost one extra entry fee.

Don't even want to get into the forced subsidizing of the workers, or the mandatory meal fee.

As a side note about the '07 MARRS schedule, I noticed that the Labor Day event is listed as a single-sanction event (and is no longer called a double). What's up w/ that? The Labor Day double has been a SP tradition for as long as I can remember.

[erlrich]

Don't even want to get into the forced subsidizing of the workers, or the mandatory meal fee.[/b]

I know, and while nobody has an issue with helping out the workers, I think the concensus was that this will probably hurt the voluntary donations a lot of us used to add to our entry fees.

As a side note about the '07 MARRS schedule, I noticed that the Labor Day event is listed as a single-sanction event (and is no longer called a double). What's up w/ that? The Labor Day double has been a SP tradition for as long as I can remember. [/b]

Labor Day will still be a double, but it will be held under one sanction number. I believe the primary reason this was done was to discourage the guys who only come out for this one weekend to retain their licenses.

[Andy Bettencourt]

A little more on LRP - expensive? Heck yes. But although some races are singles, they are mostly two-day singles - so cost per minute of track time isn't THAT outrageous. Best value is a $220 Double at NHIS.

Pocono is a horrible track. It's a 5-turn flat track connected by two rediculous straights.

[AntonioGG]

You guys need to include expected # of entries and avg. # of entries. As Dick Patullo mentioned above, a small number of racers can swing the event quite a bit.

IIRC Texas World Speedway is ~$20k (for SCCA, I'm convinced other clubs get in cheaper IMHO) including wreckers/ambulances for a weekend (2 days). So $10k per day. For the double national this weekend (Friday practice) our entry will be $400 for both races roughly. I don't have the details on this one but we get anywhere between 150-200 entries for a double.

A regional 2 day single sanction event is much cheaper. Same track cost but lower sanction fees at $285 regular entry or $245 early discount (I forgot the distribution of early/late assumed). We have very low regional attendance in this division so the assumed number is 110-120 and we hit just about that every year. One year in fact the race was break-even and we made $1300 on merchandise sales (t-shirts, region stuff, etc.)

For other tracks like MSR Cresson I hear it's $5k/day + ambulances/wreckers so I have no idea how much that costs. For the double regional in January (high risk of bad weather) they assumed 100-110 drivers IIRC, so the entry was pricey for a double regional at $335. The weather was bad for 2 weeks prior so I think they ended up with 30 cancellations and about 70-75 entries.

Finally, the 2.4 Mile MSR Houston track and Houston region have some kind of arrangement and pretty sweet price (no clue what it is) so their entry for the double national last month was $320 or so. I don't know how many entries they assumed or got to be honest, but I believe ~150 IIRC.

[tnord]

Single Regional at HPT at the end of the month is $285. i was planning on racing this weekend, but changed my mind. i'm not looking forward to what the double regional entry is.

double regionals at MAM in omaha were $275 last year iirc.

we do lots of regional/nationals and i think an entry for that is like $15 higher than a double regional.

[TAC]

Mid-Ohio will keep the same weekend rental cost as last year $32,000 all inclusive. But has added a clause in their contract this year for damage to the track surface as well as barriers and catch fencing. Thank goodness SCCA competition insurance covers the extras.
There were four Dbl. Regionals at Mid-Ohio last year. The range was $ 275 - $290 entry fee for the standard 80 - 90 minutes of track time. Most of the weekends lost money due to a marked drop off in attendance. So general thought is $300 and slightly above will be the standard entry fee for a Dbl. Regional weekend this year.

The Cincinnati Event this year will feature 150 minutes of track time for the weekend and stay within the general train of thought.

Todd C.
Great Lakes Division
Cincinnati Race Chair