Entry Costs Comparison

[KelleyHux]

Since Travis mentioned MAM (MidAmerica Motorplex) - I thought I'd provide the facts for entry fees at that venue. I've been the Chief Registrar since August 2004. I don't have the details on the track rental costs.

Aug 2004 - Fun In the Sun Regional/National
Regional (Sat) - $195
IT Restricted Regl (Sun) - $195
National (Sun) - $230
Reg/Natl - $270
Regl/IT RR - $260
CoDriver - $60 (same car, same class - two drivers - one Sat/one Sun)

Total Entries - 69 R/N, 37 R/IT, 6 Regl Only, 21 Natl Only, 4 CoDrivers = 137

Oct 2004 - Octoberfest III Drivers School/Regional & Whoomah!! ™ Enduro
Drivers School - $185
Regional - $185
Enduro - $185
DS/Regl - $250
Regl/End - $250
CoDriver - $60
Enduro CoDriver - $45

Total Entries - 29 DS, 73 Regl, 22 Enduro = 124

Apr/Aug 2005
Regional (Sat) - $210
IT Restricted Regl (Sun) - $210
National (Sun) - $245
Reg/Natl - $280
Regl/IT RR - $275
CoDriver - $60 (same car, same class - two drivers - one Sat/one Sun)

April-
Total Entries - 7 Regl Only, 57 R/N, 30 Natl Only, 31 R/IT, 5 CoDrivers = 135

Aug -
Total Entries - 12 Regl Only, 53 R/N, 24 Natl Only, 32 R/IT, 7 CoDrivers = 128

Oct 2005 - Octoberfest IV Drivers School/Regional & Whoomah!! ™ Enduro
Drivers School - $200
Regional - $200
Enduro - $200
DS/Regl - $265
Regl/End - $265
DS/Regl/End - $330
CoDriver - $60
Enduro CoDriver - $45

Total Entries - 19 DS, 72 Regl, 36 Enduro = 127

Apr/Jul 2006
Regional (Sat) - $220
IT Restricted Regl (Sun) - $220
National (Sun) - $260
Reg/Natl - $300
Regl/IT RR - $285
CoDriver - $60 (same car, same class - two drivers - one Sat/one Sun)

April-
Total Entries - 10 Regl Only, 82 R/N, 28 Natl Only, 24 R/IT, 8 CoDrivers = 162
(Largest event held at MidAmerica Motorplex)

July -
Total Entries - 13 Regl Only, 75 R/N, 47 Natl Only, 11 R/IT, 4 CoDrivers = 151

Sept 2006 - Wild & Wacky Drivers School/Regional & Whoomah!! ™ Enduro
Drivers School - $210
Regional - $210
Enduro - $210
DS/Regl - $275
Regl/End - $275
DS/Regl/End - $340
CoDriver - $65

Total Entries - 22 DS, 65 Regl, 22 Enduro = 109

Keep in mind as you review these figures and get upset because the fees have risen - keep in mind that most regions try to operate on a break-even basis. Not only have sanction and insurance costs risen, the variety of costs needed for a weekend have risen as well - postage, printing, trophies, driver/worker goodies, Saturday night party fees, etc. The list is long. While race chairs do the best they can to control costs, certain expenses have just risen.

The Enduro was added to the Drivers School/Regional weekend to help that event not lose money. That goal was achieved in the years when the Spec Miatas weren't yet a national class. We were hampered in 2006 because we had to move out of October (end of season) into September (prior to RunOffs). Many of our enduro drivers went to the RunOffs. (MidAmerica is only about 180 miles from Heartland Park.)

The MVRG board has agreed to allow me to have on-line registration this year. Unfortunately for the drivers, that may mean the cost will go up. Sorry guys - but many drivers wanted the option to pay by credit card, and this is the way you'll get it!

Now - to deviate just slightly "off-topic" - As a worker with over 30 years experience in a variety of specialties (I currently hold three licenses), it is expensive for me to volunteer my time at an event. Our budget doesn't allow any race car in our present, although my husband would dearly love one. We do what we can to help with the race organization. In that fashion, we are at least able to be involved in this fabulous sport.

I'm sorry that some folks feel they're not getting any "value" from having trained, licensed, experienced volunteers who staff the events. I know that I have made several wonderful friends in the driver ranks. Part of what we do, we do to help our friends enjoy their passion more safely.

Kelley Huxtable
DMVR
"Worker Bee"
National F&C/National Registration
Sr Timing & Scoring

[seckerich]

Now that is a detailed report. Thanks Kelley.

[JIgou]

Thank you, Kelley!

Steve, take Kelley's numbers and figure that it costs MVRG around $13-$14k for track rental per weekend (it varies, as we pay on a per car/per day basis with no minimum, but even when we had a minimum I think we always exceeded it).

That number is for track rental ONLY - anything else we require is above and beyond that number.

Examples of the standard stuff:
Guard at the gate? Extra, hourly.
Overnight camping for everyone? Extra, flat fee.
Fire and ambulance were extra, by the hour
Extra Porta-johns: extra
Saturday night party? extra
And the list goes on, of course.


If you want to get more details on that stuff (I won't dump it all in here and bore everyone to tears), just drop me a note at [email protected].

Jarrod

[Wreckerboy]

I've done about 30+ SCCA events and witnessed some big wrecks, with minimal injuries.

I've done 1 (one) EMRA event and watched someone get killed. I don't mean to slam EMRA, it may have been bad luck......but I haven't done another event with them.

I don't know if I agree with fastbenz's logic about putting on an event with a handful of workers.
.02
R
[/b]

Okay, nothing personal taken here, but let's clear up a basic misconception... but first, my name is Rob Myles, and I am the EMRA Chief of Tech. I'm also a racer. I've worked nearly every EMRA event in the last 18 years. For the last three I have worked and driven and every EMRA event. It makes for a busy weekend.

I read this thread with interest because EMRA faces the same hellacious rental rates that NER does - we operate on largely the same turf. I came to the thread looking to learn how other groups and how racers feel about these things.

I am very aware of the terrible tragedy you witnessed that day at Lime Rock. And though you don't come out and say it, by implication the tragedy occurred because of a lack of workers, or the skill set of them.

Unless you have access to the accident report (that still hasn't been released) or a compleatly different set of facts than the ones I, as an "official EMRA muckety muck in charge of something or other" have, you would know that the worker staffing was not considered a cause by anybody or any official party connected to the event. And for the record, the session immediately prior to the incident was staffed with two people. The appropriate flags were displayed and several vehicles went through the incident area before the second, and fatal incident occurred.

Would we love to have more workers? Hell yes. Were the workers a contributing factor in the terrible incident? Not at all.

Rob Myles
EMRA Chief of Tech

[Wreckerboy]

As to why is EMRA able to run an event with less workers?

Don't get me started...I've run EMRA events, and trust me sir, no offense to EMRA, (they are running a more casual event, and thats their intent), but the lack of staffing IS noticable and effects the event. I led my race for 3 laps until a black flag all, was demoted to 4th in the pits, and when I quesstioned the (one) grid girl, said "I don't know, thats where they think you belong....and theres not enough people for me go to figure it out, or find out why" and walked away. Um, no it wasn't "OK" and they had to go out of their way to pull me out of line and put me back. (I know a little about race operstions, and there was NO reason for me to be demoted..I had held the spot long before the yellow and black flags, made no questionable passes, they made a mistake, pure and simple) [/b]

Jake, first, no offense is taken. I approach these things with an open mind, and feel that a healthy critique only benefits all of us. Are we perfect? Not even close.

First, perhaps it is our bad for not making EMRA restart policy in the event of a black flag all situation more clear in advance of the event. For that one, I'll take it on the chin, and apologize. For the record, EMRA policy in the event of a black flag all situation is to reset the field to the running order of the last green flag lap. That information comes to us directly from timing and scoring. We time electronically with strips as a backup. Also, for the record, we do discuss that policy at the driver's meetings at every event now because we have learned there is some confusion about it.

That "grid girl" to whom you refer is my wife, Jean, and she was following that policy. In fact, in all probability, I had given her that direction. I am not asking for special compensation because of who she is, I am just putting a name to the face for you.

And lets not even talk about my considering a mech protest that weekend for some obvious illegalities that resulted in real performance advantages. I could see where that would go, so I just kept my mouth shut and had fun.[/b]

Given the general tenor around here of "policing oneself" that is an interesting statement. If you saw "obvious illegalities" did you bring them to anyone's attention? Even if you didn't know where to find the Chief of Tech (moi), did you ask anybody how to deal with the issues you had concern about? I try to remain very approachable, and if you have a concern, am more than happy to discuss the matter with you at any time and to investigate the problem. More than once I have sat down with the EMRA Car Prep Guide and reviewed a concern with a driver. It's a shame, really, because know that I might have learned something interesting from the exchange. A driver can always file a protest in writing if need be, but if we can get things resolved informally before a race happens, all the better. I'm sorry you left the event with such a bad taste in your mouth.

As an example, I refer you to the EMRA night enduro at Summit Point last year. Some who post here attend that event. During the course of the weekend multiple competitors came to me with concerns about illegalities of other cars in the field. Some were legit, others stemmed from some misunderstanding of the EMRA rules. Ask anybody here what happens at the end of that event - all cars are impounded, and I made a point of walking the entire grid to spot check those issues. For example, all of the SM 1.8 guys had to show me their restrictor plates right then and there.

Rob Myles
EMRA Chief of Tech, etc.

[lateapex911]

. For the record, EMRA policy in the event of a black flag all situation is to reset the field to the running order of the last green flag lap. That information comes to us directly from timing and scoring. We time electronically with strips as a backup. Also, for the record, we do discuss that policy at the driver's meetings at every event now because we have learned there is some confusion about it.
[/b]

Rod, I'll be beif, as I don't want to sray off topic too far, and sorry to the original posater, but I don't want anyone to think that I have an issues with EMRA. I was aware of the policy, and it's pretty common, actually. But I had been leading for a number of laps, hence my confusion. And I could see she was trying hard and had LOTS to do.

Given the general tenor around here of "policing oneself" that is an interesting statement. If you saw "obvious illegalities" did you bring them to anyone's attention?

Rob Myles
EMRA Chief of Tech, etc. [/b]

Rob, it was one of those things that was obvious if you knew what to look for, so to speak, but rather invasive to prove, and after consideration, I decided it wasn't proper for someone that wasn't a regular runner to bring up, and it just didn't match the tenor of the event. Resolving it would have been a large task, well beyond the capacities of everyone involved, including myself, LOL. As I said, I decided I was there to have fun, and went out and did just that.

I merely brought it up to highlight that indeed it is difficult to run an event without staff. Staffing gives options that don't exist otherwise, and getting and keeping the staff is a critical aspect of an event, and needs to be accomodated for in some manner, which might include financial....adding to the expenses of the event, and therefore, the entry fee, all else being equal.

[Wreckerboy]

Rob, it was one of those things that was obvious if you knew what to look for, so to speak, but rather invasive to prove, and after consideration, I decided it wasn't proper for someone that wasn't a regular runner to bring up, and it just didn't match the tenor of the event. Resolving it would have been a large task, well beyond the capacities of everyone involved, including myself, LOL. As I said, I decided I was there to have fun, and went out and did just that.
[/b]

Thanks for the somewhat muddy clarification. Although what you saw might have been considered invasive, it still was a concern to you and may or may not have been legal. EMRA is run by racers for racers, and if you've got issues, questions, or concerns, please feel free to raise them. I don't care if you are a "regular runner" or a first time visitor, the last time I checked the rulebook we made no distinction like that. If you don't feel comfortable talking to me (it's my charming personality, I know) there are any number of EMRA types around you can speak with.

Either way, I would have appreciated knowing about it, both to address the issue with you, and for my own edification. In fact, I would welcome a PM from you regarding what you saw. (Contact me at wreckerboy at g mail dot com ) Any time I can learn something it's A Good Thing. As has been discussed here many times, the Tech inspector cannot be an expert on the minutia of all the cars out there. Heck, the "Protest Story' documents that very well. I freely admit that I concentrate on safety issues first and foremost because I'm no expert on the eleventy seven varieties of cars that .

But at least you had fun.

But back to the original topic - staffing can make or break an event, without question. When talking about an event like a small club race weekend, the sheer amount of manpower that goes into the preparation before the event and the execution during is amazing. I was at a NASA event at SP last fall and was amazed at the sheer numbers of staff they get - there must have been five people just working false grid alone. It certainly goes a long way to keeping stress levels manageable.

[tdw6974]

Just back from Glen region Comp board meeting. we where finalizing details for the 2 races the Glen region will have this year. The Fingerlakes Region will be doing the National event this year. The July sprints entry fee will be $240.00 last Year it was $225.00, The Last Chance Drivers school,Enduro and regional fees have been set. School will be $360.00, Enduro $360.00, and the Sunday regional will be $180.00 the regional race will go from 20 minutes plus one lap to 25 minutes plus one lap. Track rental and insurance costs are up from last year. The July sprint will be a NYSRRC,NERRC AND NARRC RACE. Marrs is going to nelson ledges for its other out of region race for 2007. There where several new classes to work into the schedule and still try to avoid overtime and the charge for the overtime. Tom Weaver