Here's where all the ITS E30s went...

[tnord]

Too late, it already happened in some areas......

See "NX2000 Dyno" thread............
[/b]

i'll have to respectfully disagree.

sure, there may be a couple people who are spending the money and time right now so that they really do get 100% out of the car. but i'm pretty sure i've even seen Amy say himself somewhere that he's still got room for more power. Andy may not be willing to venture into as gray of areas as others, as there is more power to be found in his car as well.

but even so.....even if there are a couple people getting 100% out of the car, there's going to be a big chunk of people who aren't now, but will if it goes national. which means you're going to have more people going faster, which makes the guys at the front spend $ to stay ahead, and the guys behind spend $ to keep up, etc etc etc.

there's plenty of $ to burn out there.

[cmaclean]

It's inevitable Spec E30 will go the exact same way as Spec Miata. Once it gets popular, the guys with money will come into the class for the "close competition" and destroy that close competition with expensively prepped cars. The little secret eventually gets out. It won't be long before some enterprising businessman/woman will launch www.spece30motors.com and sell well prepared and "tear-down-legal" Spec E30 BMW motors. The top guys will buy one to stay ahead of their competitors and so it goes. That's racing folks! I mean, do we know for sure that there aren't already Sunbelt motors in that class? The camera car was stupid fast compared to most of the other cars out there.

NASA have an opportunity to kill that right away with the engine claim rule. Lets learn from the missed opportunities of old.

[leggwork]

the cars are all dyno'd at events (well, so far at major events) so there is at least public visibility of what a car is doing. Rules on how a very well performing engine are handled are still gestating, but the current rules are clear on what engine changes are allowed.
cheers,
bruce

It's inevitable Spec E30 will go the exact same way as Spec Miata. Once it gets popular, the guys with money will come into the class for the "close competition" and destroy that close competition with expensively prepped cars. The little secret eventually gets out. It won't be long before some enterprising businessman/woman will launch www.spece30motors.com and sell well prepared and "tear-down-legal" Spec E30 BMW motors. The top guys will buy one to stay ahead of their competitors and so it goes. That's racing folks! I mean, do we know for sure that there aren't already Sunbelt motors in that class? The camera car was stupid fast compared to most of the other cars out there.

NASA have an opportunity to kill that right away with the engine claim rule. Lets learn from the missed opportunities of old.
[/b]

[spece30DRVR]

Wow I didn't think my video would make it over here haha.

Thanks for the compliments and I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. First off, our car has under 100k on it unlike many of the other cars racing. The car dynoed at 156 and almost all of the other cars were at about ~151hp. The motor has never been opened up for any reason and its just a tight motor. We do have a nice exhaust but it's within the guidlines i.e. it retains the factory header and x-pipe. It did look pretty fast at the start but I didn't lift at the kink when others did. It was wet and I was also on freshly shaved tires that I was planning on saving for the enduro. As far as the comment regarding people with money entering the series and building killer motors. Well the problem there is these motors don't really react to modifications very well without increasing the injector size and changing the fuel/timing maps. The ECU's are so easy to check it would be stupid to try and chip the car and race it. We have one guy that runs in the southeast division that rebuilt his motor and he made 156lb/ft or torque and 152hp. I really don't see this series allowing the rules creep that spe c miata has. Next year there will be greater exhaust restrictions and when those rules are in place we will change our exhaust to meet them. Another side note what you cannot see from the video is how close carter hunt in the yellow car is behind me the entire race I did not walk away from him on the straights. I'm not sure why or how I passed as many cars as I did on the first two laps. I just tried to drive a clean race and have a good time doing it. Spec e30 is growing every day and the people that are coming into the series have the same vision as the rest of us. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

cheers,
mike

And yes, that "spec" bmw had a pretty substantial hp advantage over the guys he was passing. It isnt his fault. He just has the means to spend more money on his motor/car then his competition.
Personally, I wouldnt really savor a victory all that much with that kind of hp advantage. I dont know, kinda takes the fun out of it.


[/b]

Substantial hp over the rest of the field? I'm not sure you can say that 5hp is a substantial amount of horsepower. ~2 psi in the right/wrong directon on a toyo RA1 will make a bigger difference on lap times than 5hp. And as far as spending money on the motor we spent $200 on the exhaust and we change the oil every two races. We adjust the valves ourselves. That's it, it's never been opened.

[tnord]

Well the problem there is these motors don't really react to modifications very well without increasing the injector size and changing the fuel/timing maps. The ECU's are so easy to check it would be stupid to try and chip the car and race it.
[/b]

when someone with the right combination of money and motivation comes along, they will find a way. what does "not very well" really mean anyway? that you only get 1hp from x modification? that 1hp will become increasingly more important as time goes on and people get more serious. the motor isn't the only place to make power either. do you guys have anything in place that would prevent the $1200 lightweight clutches like we saw in SM? rules to prevent REM finishing of the gearbox and r/p? how much mfg variance did BMW specify in parts such as valves, cams, pistons, etc?

i'm not trying to be critical, i'm just speaking from spending the 'explosive' years inside SM and watching all this happen.

I really don't see this series allowing the rules creep that spec miata has.
cheers,
mike
[/b]

SM really didn't have rules creep is the thing. the rules have been the same since day one for the most part. if anything, they've gotten more restrictive over the past 12mos. if your junkyard motors are making 156hp, i'd shoot for 170hp from a well 'assembled' one.

good junkyard SMs are in the 105-110hp range, with 120 being the benchmark for a good pro motor.

i think it's a GREAT class you guys have going, i'm just trying to warn you what will happen if the class continues to succeed (and it seems to have the momentum to do so). you guys need to take a GOOD HARD LOOK at how the rules are written and see where the holes are that would allow development.

[spece30DRVR]

i think it's a GREAT class you guys have going, i'm just trying to warn you what will happen if the class continues to succeed (and it seems to have the momentum to do so). you guys need to take a GOOD HARD LOOK at how the rules are written and see where the holes are that would allow development.


[/b]

I can dig that.

<mike>