View Poll Results: ECU Rule - Your Input

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • Keep the current rule and wording

    2 2.63%
  • Allow chip replacements and reprogramming of stock chips

    27 35.53%
  • Allow open engine control system replacement

    41 53.95%
  • Other

    6 7.89%
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Thread: ECU Rule Input to the CRB

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    First, please write or email the CRB in regards to your preference as to the ECU rule. Second, once you've done that, please anonymously select one of the items above as to how you "voted".

    Please, no discussion of the various merits of the options; we've got plenty of discussions all over this board on that already. In fact, if someone tries to open discussion on the proposals here, I'm probably going to move your post to the appropriate existing topic (hey, it's my topic, dammit, and I can do with it what I want... ).

    However, if you do choose option 4, "Other", it would be interesting to hear from you what you suggested... - Greg


    Below is the solicitation for membership input, as posted in the March 2007 Fastrack (typos mine):

    Improved Touring

    The CRB and the ITAC wish to get member feedback on a modification of the existing rules regarding the ECU (Engine Control Unit) allowances in Improved Touring.

    The existing rule, known as the “inside the stock housing” rule, creates an arbitrary situation that allows some, but not all cars, to modify or replace their ECUs at varying degrees of cost and complexity. As it stands, the wording of the existing rule constrains certain cars from doing anything, while allowing others to run complete engine management systems, including, in some instances non stock sensors.

    Significantly, all cars in IT are classed using a process that includes presumed gains from the ECU change. As not all cars can affect those changes, competition inequities result.

    Increasingly, more and more cars are delivered with complex and interwoven systems that interfere with racing by limiting engine rpms, top speed, stability management as well other issues, some as yet unseen.
    Therefore, the CRB would like to solicit member response to three options:

    1. Keep the current rule and wording. In this case, there would be no changes to the existing wording.

    2. Allow chip replacements and reprogramming of stock chips. The intent with this option is to eliminate the practice of replacing the stock ECU with aftermarket control systems. Chips may be removed and replaced or reflashed. All modifications must be done through the original chip solder points. This will give options, but the complexity of such changes and the availability of commercially available solutions will vary from car to car. The intent with this option is to simplify the possibilities, but the performance parity may suffer compared to other options.

    9.1.3.D.1.6 :
    ECUs may be altered by reprogramming the stock chip(s), or by removing the stock chip(s) and replacing with any assembly using the same connection points. Any assembly must fit within the stock ECU enclosure. Installation of fixed resistors is allowed between the sensor and the OEM wiring harness. Adjustable fuel pressure regulators are allowed.


    3. Allow open engine control system replacement. The current state of electronics has spawned a number of inexpensive EMS (Engine Management Systems) that are more approachable to the average racer. For these reasons, it seems prudent to open up the existing rule by removing the “in the box” clause, so as to allow the substitution of these systems. Furthermore, as some systems operate better with certain sensors, specific sensors will be allowed to be added.

    However, the existing Air Flow Meter (AFM) or equivalent device, must be retained and operate as delivered from the factory completely unaltered.

    By opening up the ECU rule to aftermarket systems, it is felt that more racers will be able to achieve “process power” and at lesser price points. As the IT classing process already presumes ECU gains, no performance increase is anticipated over what is currently achievable or predicted.

    9.1.3.D.1.6
    Altering or replacement of the engine management computer is allowed. The addition or substitution of a throttle position sensor and/or a MAP sensor and the associate wiring is permitted. Existing sensors, excluding the stock air metering device, may be substituted. Adjustable fuel pressure regulators are permitted. Where possible, wording has been removed that reminds competitors of things not permitted, such as the modification of the stock ECU box. As the category is based on the cornerstone principle that nothing may be modified unless specifically authorized, the extra wording can be counter productive.


    Please forward your comments to the CRB.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I could have chosen two of the poll options, had that been possible. I gave my support for one of the three options provided in the Fastrack request, but also expressed support for another option not included in the request (open EMS w/stock sensors/wires only). So you could add one check under the "other" option above.

    Earl R.
    240SX
    ITA/ST5

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Ligonier, PA, USA
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    Default

    more votes


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Wheaton, IL
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    I could have chosen two of the poll options, had that been possible. I gave my support for one of the three options provided in the Fastrack request, but also expressed support for another option not included in the request (open EMS w/stock sensors/wires only). So you could add one check under the "other" option above.
    [/b]
    My letter said exactly the same thing Earl.
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  5. #5
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    Nov 2004
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    Ligonier, PA, USA
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    I guess the only thing that matters now is what the CRB wants to do.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Black Rock, Ct
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    9,594

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    Actually, what matters is the getting and reading peoples thoughts and well informed opinions. We've been rather lucky to have gotten much praise in the letters for the mere fact that we've taken on the issue, and compliments on the method and the presentation as well. Apparently, reasonable requests inspire resonable responses.

    So we'll gather the input, discuss it, and them make a recommendation to the CRB. They will then take it into consideration, and either bounce it back to us, or make a call.

    But, lets not consider the case closed, we're still looking for, and getting input.

    I am impressed also that some who race in IT, but don't own ECU equipped cars have written in and voted, and interestingly, their votes haven't been self serving.

    Let's hear from more of you!
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,489

    Default

    #2 for me.
    Travis Nordwald
    1996 ITA Miata
    KC Region

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Asheville, NC US
    Posts
    1,626

    Default

    Another vote for other--open ECU with stock wire and sensors.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Ligonier, PA, USA
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    Default

    Actually, what matters is the getting and reading peoples thoughts and well informed opinions. We've been rather lucky to have gotten much praise in the letters for the mere fact that we've taken on the issue, and compliments on the method and the presentation as well. Apparently, reasonable requests inspire resonable responses.

    So we'll gather the input, discuss it, and them make a recommendation to the CRB. They will then take it into consideration, and either bounce it back to us, or make a call.

    But, lets not consider the case closed, we're still looking for, and getting input.

    I am impressed also that some who race in IT, but don't own ECU equipped cars have written in and voted, and interestingly, their votes haven't been self serving.

    Let's hear from more of you!
    [/b]


    Jake, have you heard how many letters the CRB has received on this subject? The vote doesn't matter much here as much as a letter would to the CRB.


  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Northeast
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    Jake, have you heard how many letters the CRB has received on this subject? The vote doesn't matter much here as much as a letter would to the CRB.

    [/b]
    They all fall into a folder we have access to. 21 to date right now. Last one in is Marty Doane's - so if he tells us when he sent his, you can get a feeling for how quick they hit our inbox.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  11. #11
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    They all fall into a folder we have access to. 21 to date right now. Last one in is Marty Doane's - so if he tells us when he sent his, you can get a feeling for how quick they hit our inbox. [/b]


    Wow, that's disappointing! Only 21 people give a rats ass what happens to this in IT !?!? Are the rest of the members that complacent?


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
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    Oregon City OR.
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    Wow, that's disappointing! Only 21 people give a rats ass what happens to this in IT !?!? Are the rest of the members that complacent?
    [/b]

    Typically yes, and now that the fastrac is not in the magazine if less people know what is going on. I am shocked at how many people I have talked to about this that don't have a clue about any of it. What ever happens it will be based on a small amount of input. Apathy SUCKS!
    GTL Nissan Sentra
    DP 240sx
    Vintage BS 510
    ITS 240z
    I just type like a pompous ass!
    http://www.saveclubracing.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Wheaton, IL
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    This is actually a great argument for a printed FastTrack. Sorry but I bet the actual readership dropped in half when it went electronic. As much sense as it makes to those of use here, there are lots of folks that just don't get into the computer thing.
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Oregon City OR.
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    This is actually a great argument for a printed FastTrack. Sorry but I bet the actual readership dropped in half when it went electronic. As much sense as it makes to those of use here, there are lots of folks that just don't get into the computer thing.
    [/b]
    Chris, I have 3 customers that I print it out for because they refuse to learn how to get it..
    GTL Nissan Sentra
    DP 240sx
    Vintage BS 510
    ITS 240z
    I just type like a pompous ass!
    http://www.saveclubracing.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    newington, ct
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    If it weren't for here, I'd probably miss the majority of them.
    Dave Gran
    Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
    Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Northeast
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    You think there would be more didication to the document that outlined rule changes and asked for input.

    Two things that need to be back in SC - Regional racing and FT. I am sure TONS of prospective SCCA members salivate over the pics of 50's British cars winning races in 4 car fields...not.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    They all fall into a folder we have access to. 21 to date right now. Last one in is Marty Doane's - so if he tells us when he sent his, you can get a feeling for how quick they hit our inbox. [/b]
    2/27 1:49 PM EST

    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

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    Been away on this one, what is the Board's email address? Don't have a ECU car, just carb cars, but I'm thinking ahead for my R car.

    Thanks,
    Ron

  19. #19
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    Oct 2002
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    Wandering the USA
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    Been away on this one, what is the Board's email address? Don't have a ECU car, just carb cars, but I'm thinking ahead for my R car.

    Thanks,
    Ron [/b]
    [email protected]

    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Just sent my letter to the crb.

    I am in favor of an open ECU rule that allows the replacement of the stock ECU with an aftermarket unit and the addition/replacement of sensors and wiring needed to control the engine with the new ECU. The addition and replacement of sensors should not allow for an air intake path larger than the restriction provided by the throttle body butterfly valve and the idle bypass valve if fitted as stock equipment.

    Here is an attempt at updating the rule.

    9.1.3.D.1.6 with updates…
    Altering or replacement of the engine management computer is allowed. The addition or substitution of a throttle position sensor, and/or a MAP sensor, and/or a crank angle sensor and their associated wiring is permitted. Existing sensors<strike>, excluding the stock air metering device,</strike> may be substituted. All air entering the intake plenum shall pass through the stock unmodified throttle body butterfly valve (cars originally equipped with an idle bypass valve may retain or remove the idle bypass valve) . Adjustable fuel pressure regulators are permitted. Where possible, wording has been removed that reminds competitors of things not permitted, such as the modification of the stock ECU box. As the category is based on the cornerstone principle that nothing may be modified unless specifically authorized, the extra wording can be counter productive

    I am not a rule writing expert and this may cause more issues than it solves, but it seems reasonable to me....at least right now...
    Russell White
    Indianapolis, IN
    &#39;85 Toyota Supra ITS #14

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