March fastrac

[Stan]

Jerry, which track down your way is closing? Stan

[StephenB]

Exactly why I think this is a great idea. I wish that I could have raced my IT car with my dad when he was running Nationals. Instead we spread ourselves thin and ran a full National and a full regional schedule. It was tough on us and our wallets and didn't allow any "breaks". Except of course the cars that broke as the season progressed due to time and the ability for all of us to work on the cars. I think allowing us to race in nationals would have worked great for my family and allowed us all to go and race together. Of course my dad is no longer running nationals so I won't take advantage of this anymore...

If I was going to run a bunch of races this year I probably would go to the National at NHIS because I could. One thing we all want is more tracks to race at so we have more dates to race. This is one way that I see SCCA trying to give us what we are looking for! We can have fun and create our own races against eachother. So what if a WCT car shows up and kicks our bu. Do you really feel like you lost if you beat 10 other IT cars and lost to the 1 WTC car? I am personally only planning on Watkins glen in July and Mid Ohio in August this year because of money so I like I said I can't take advantage of what they are offering but I do thank them for the opportunity.

Stephen

[ddewhurst]

***Dave- Not sure why you brought Grammer into this, I think it is great that he is offering us another place to play.***

Raymond, do you like the feeling of being USED for the profit of another?

[RacerBowie]

***Dave- Not sure why you brought Grammer into this, I think it is great that he is offering us another place to play.***

Raymond, do you like the feeling of being USED for the profit of another?
[/b]

Who gives a big fat crap if Ken Grammer is trying to make money running a racing series. More power to him! He is offering a product at a price point. If you don't like it, don't go.

[Greg Amy]

Bowie: Amen.

[R2 Racing]

I can kind of relate to what Stephen said above. I've toyed with the idea of going into Limited Prep FProd but one of the big hurdles was the fact that while I'd have a National car, the rest of my team would have regional cars. So pretty much we'd be trying to run both a full national campaign as well as a regional one too. That would just be too much. But now if I wanted to go off and do a national event in a Prod car, the rest of my team would have a place they could race that weekend too. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it could.

[Roy Dean]

4. Appendix B. Glossary, clarify the definition for a Traction Bar by adding to read as follows: Traction Bar – A longitudinal link
to an axle housing or hub carrier which resists torque reaction from the driven wheel(s) by acting in compression or tension.[/b]

[Stan]

Stan, this is not a shot at you. The National folks (restricted Regionals), the Prepared folks & everone else who has a wish to USE the IT folks should do the same thing that Johnson requested. We IT folks were good enough to support the numbers for the Milwaukee Region Cat National untill Spec Miata came along then the IT folks were no longer good enough to be included.[/b]

Dave, for the past 5 years I have been trying to get the Club to eliminate the difference between Regional-only and National classes...and just have classes. Peter has been doing the same even longer. The difference is that we are both now on the CRB and are gaining allies in the fight for class and category equality. We aren't there yet, but at the same time I know that some IT folks would like to run Nationals without having to invest in a new car, so we've opened the door as far as we can for now.

A word on "being used". Ultimately each and all of us who race are "being used" by others as well as "using" others...unless you've built your own road course and don't share it with anybody else. It's called banding together as a club to share our hobby. And it is our "using" and "being used" that makes this madness even possible, so I'd urge you to not get too wound around the axle over "being used".

As far as I am concerned the National folks can stick it where the sun don't shine.[/b]

Tabled for committee input.

Oh ya, then there is Grammer with his endro things always posting on the IT site. Come & play suckers.[/b]

Sounds more than just a little bitter, Dave. I don't know Grammer, but I do know that the prospect of running Enduros is the only reason I haven't sold my 510.

Classing the Mazda 1st gen RX-7 in G Production non-ported. Creating another level of prep is not consistent with the Production car class philosophy. SURE, you guys add the Hybird that a Production car traditionalist asked for. That Stan is total crap & people wonder why IT people don't fall all over each other to get into Production car racing.[/b]

IT people don't fall all over each other to get into Production car racing for a variety of reasons. Chief among them I suspect is the screwing the Prod guys gave IT cars after the first round or two of cross-listing. Me? I'd sweep them all into GTL and be done with it, but I can't seem to make much headway with that idea, either.

Stan

[tnord]

Who gives a big fat crap if Ken Grammer is trying to make money running a racing series. More power to him! He is offering a product at a price point. If you don't like it, don't go.
[/b]

funny this comes up, as i got my ass chewed by our BOD rep for promoting a competing sanctioning bodies race at an SCCA meeting. i was promoting it because Ken was nice enough to provide us with a couple of discounted entry fees to help fill the fields, which was only available to our SCCA region members.

myself, nor anyone else really thought it was that big of a deal, but apparantly this particular BOD member did.

[Bill Miller]

Bill, no one on the current CRB believes that the IT guys are red headed step childern. I have been a long time supporter of IT getting national status. I believe that if it happend 3 or 4 of the exsisting runoff classes would be sitting home the year after they were elligible. The line in the revised Prepared rule is just what it says, we would like the IT guys to show up at the National events and let the old gaurd see that they are not ratted out cars. Secondly, we did not want to hear what a**holes we were because an IT car was not competitive in Prepared, it is not supose to be. With the current climate within all of our ad hoc committees and the CRB, I think you are making a mistake by packing up and heading to that other sactioning body. PK
[/b]

Peter,

I totally agree, if the 5 IT classes were allowed to run Nationals today, and attempt to qualify for a Runoffs' spot for '08, I have no doubt that at the very least , they would depose 2 classes, and quite possibly 4. I think ITS and ITA would be no-brainers, and it just may be the boot in the pants that some of the ITR folks would need, and you might see a bunch of ITB cars and maybe even the ITC folks show up). Throw that in w/ the 'exceptions' that I bet get given to the 'pet' classes, and you'll probably see most of Prod, GTL, S2, CSR, F5 and maybe 1 or 2 more on the outside looking in. That is, if they stick to their limit of 24 Runoffs' slots.

And I probably won't be heading to NASA either, I've got my car up for sale. This is supposed to be something we do for fun, and it's not fun any more. I don't think NASA has everything right, just that they're an alternative product for people that finally get fed up w/ being jerked around by the SCCA.

The RX7 request is a great example of that. The precedent has been set for dual-classification, why not try it w/ some other cars? If it puts more cars on the track, or creates more entries at a race, that sounds like a good thing to me. You've got a pretty good system in place now for spec'ing IT cars. If it works for one class, why wouldn't it work for another? Car A is in Class X at xxxx# and in Class Y at yyyy#. The tools are in place to make this kind of thing work, one has to wonder why they're not used.

And the recent comment in FasTrack is just one more example of a canned, flip answer to what was probably a pretty well thought out and presented proposal. And as someone else said, you get points for the intent of getting the IT cars in Prepared, but the presentation really missed the mark. And when you look at it in light of other things that have happened previously (like small-bore l-p Prod cars admittedly classed as field-fillers), don't be surprised when people think they're getting bent over again.

[mengelke]

David,

Let's not ignore the fact that the IT numbers at the Cat were not impressive for many years. 9 cars do not justify a seperate group.

(edit: 1998=28, 1999=27, 2000=27, 2001=20, 2002=19, 2003=17, 2004=63 sm, 2005=71sm)

Bring cars and you will get a run group again.

Mike Engelke

[gran racing]

We can have fun and create our own races against eachother. So what if a WCT car shows up and kicks our bu. Do you really feel like you lost if you beat 10 other IT cars and lost to the 1 WTC car?[/b]

I totally agree with you. Look at how many cars in various fields never have a chance of coming in first for their class. Do not think there are many other races going on within the class - they are just not out in the open. When I was in ITA, my goal was to beat a friend of mine (Jake Fisher). If I beat him, I won!!! Unfortunately that didn't happen too often.

If others in my class decided to attend a few National events, I'd certainly consider it. Besides, then it would be us IT cars versus them national guys. In a way, it would be fun to encourage other drivers in my class to help try to beat-up on some national drivers.

[p.keane]

Bill, I believe (and I think Stan will agree) that this is the new SCCA. We are trying as hard as we can to get rid of the old way of classing cars. I call it the plate method, you through a plate up in the air and see how many shots it takes to break the plate. Three shots SSB! The ITAC has done a great job using a process to equal the playing field with out favorites. Stan and I are numbers guys and we believe a similar process should be used in all classes. I agree with you about the limited prep prod rules and I was going to make it my mission to get in the middle of it and try to make it right. Once I started to do some investigating and found out that even long time prod guys do not know why the rules are the way they are, it left me scratching my head. Then the Prepared class came along and I believe that it is a viable solution to the SCCA's future, so that is were I have put my attention.

As for the RX7, people have been trying to get it into ITB for as long as I have been on the CRB/ITAC. The simple turth is the car has way to much potential for ITB or it will have to weigh so much that it would not be any fun to drive. I believe that a well prepared RX7 is still capible of runing at the top of ITA, specially after the 100 pound weight reduction. By no means do I think it is the car to have in ITA, but it can and does compete well in ITA. The only reason we dual classed the ITS/ITR cars was we were not sure ITR would generate the numbers, so why make guys run there. PK

[jhooten]

Jerry, which track down your way is closing? Stan
[/b]

The prophets are predicting the loss of Texas World Speedway to Developers in the very near future.

[Knestis]

The only reason we dual classed the ITS/ITR cars was we were not sure ITR would generate the numbers, so why make guys run there.[/b]

We need to bookmark this page for future generations, when someone trots out alterative histories (intentions) for the policy.

K

[Marcus Miller]

*Any* 1990 and newer "IT" legal Car is legal for Prepared?
Including ITE?
Anyone read the SFR ITE rules?
Hello 700+ HP 12 inch wide hoosier tired Mistu Evos... that outruns Vipe Comp coupes, GTSR's, etc...

:026:

[DavidM]

Dave, for the past 5 years I have been trying to get the Club to eliminate the difference between Regional-only and National classes...and just have classes. Peter has been doing the same even longer. The difference is that we are both now on the CRB and are gaining allies in the fight for class and category equality. We aren't there yet, but at the same time I know that some IT folks would like to run Nationals without having to invest in a new car, so we've opened the door as far as we can for now.
[/b]

Here's to hoping this happens. I think doing away with the National/Regional class distinctions could be one of the best things the club can do to improve itself.

Due to the Road Atlanta repaving, the regional weekend normally held at the end of February will be combined with the National event in June. Us regional guys will get our own races, but will qualify with the national classes. This could be an interesting trial for coexistence. I'm looking forward to it as I've never participated in a national weekend and I think the national guys will be surprised by us regional folk.

David

[erlrich]

*Any* 1990 and newer "IT" legal Car is legal for Prepared?
Including ITE?
Anyone read the SFR ITE rules?
Hello 700+ HP 12 inch wide hoosier tired Mistu Evos... that outruns Vipe Comp coupes, GTSR's, etc...

:026: [/b]

Ahhh, grasshopper, you must read carefully: "GCR listed IT cars, 1990 and newer, under the current IT specifications".

[Stan]

*Any* 1990 and newer "IT" legal Car is legal for Prepared?
Including ITE?
Anyone read the SFR ITE rules?
Hello 700+ HP 12 inch wide hoosier tired Mistu Evos... that outruns Vipe Comp coupes, GTSR's, etc...

:026:
[/b]

Sorry Marcus, but did you notice the words "GCR listed IT cars..."?

Of course, it should be straight forward to convert your car to BP. Another Evo with similar hp is running in Florida with the 40mm SIR...good for 450 hp.

Stan

[mustanghammer]

Dave, for the past 5 years I have been trying to get the Club to eliminate the difference between Regional-only and National classes...and just have classes. Peter has been doing the same even longer. The difference is that we are both now on the CRB and are gaining allies in the fight for class and category equality. We aren't there yet, but at the same time I know that some IT folks would like to run Nationals without having to invest in a new car, so we've opened the door as far as we can for now.


[/b]

Thanks for your efforts in this regard.

I am a supporter of IT having national status. I say this knowing full well that I don't currently have the best ITA car there is. If IT went National I would be willing to build a new car as long as I get to use IT rules and regs.

Thanks