March fastrac

[lateapex911]

Stan, thanks for checking in. Our con call was kinda screwed up last night as the phone system was broken, and I joined late. I thought I heard some comments on the whole IT in Proep thing, and I *thought* I heard that IT cars wouln't be counted towards Prep numbers. Is that really the case? I can't see how that could be happen...who breaks it out?

I DID get an answer on the 1990 cutoff. If you are in a car that has a 1990 version on your spec line, (like the 2nd gen RX-7) you're good to go.

[cherokee]

Geez Stan, you sure know how to ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory

I hope you're happy now.
[/b]

No conspirancy, they had the Pro guys tell them how they wanted the class setup. That sure makes me feel good, perhaps we should let them take care of the money as well.



Yep having fun.

[JamesB]

Man I lost the bet, I figured it would be another hour before someone brought up the money again.

As for asking pro what the age of the WC cars and setting a limit, so be it, dont like it dont race in prepared.

[Brian Holtz]

Let me see if I can weigh in here. Just some thoughts as 1/13th of the BOD.

One of the problems that I have with the 24 class rule is that we now have a competition between classes for a spot at the Runoffs. We are already seeing the protectionist attitude where anything that encourages participation in one class is bad for another class. This is especially prevalent on the Prod side of the club and has now been supported by some of the IT folks, based on letters that we have already received. The CRB has allowed IT cars, which have a great potential as the starting platform for a Prepared car, to enter national races in IT trim. Basically it allows them to be exempt from the SIR and weight requirements in exchange for not taking advantage of the rules regarding compression ratio, camshafts, porting, pistons, brakes, pickup points, etc. There are certainly some ITR cars that could take advantage of this allowance and immediately be more competitive than some of the back marker Production cars that we see at nationals. If we are going to grow and bring forward new ideas and classes we need to be able to nurture them without someone feeling threatened. Otherwise our competitors will do it for us.

I don’t necessarily see this as a move to make IT a national class. As one who served on the original ITAC, including a stint as chairman before moving to the CRB, I have always been leery of moving towards a national class for IT. Specification enforcement is one issue, cost another. A recent post suggested making camshafts and pickup points free if they can’t be enforced. Talks about letting things get out of hand. Pickup points can be enforced as we are already doing it in Prod limited prep. Camshafts maybe a different deal as originals are no longer stocked by the manufacturer, although I suppose with the proper scrounging that the club could come up with specs for the appropriate bump sticks. That being said, I’m still concerned about the cost escalation to be competitive.

We’ve got to be more competitive in the marketplace. That means bringing new ideas and classes forward. I think Prepared is a good start, although the stigma of calling it a class for ex-WC cars makes me cringe. We also need a closer tie to the tuner market and newer automobiles. The problem is bringing people to the Runoffs. It is not the number of classes that is the issue; it is the number of competitors in each class. We invite a lot of competitors and a lot of them come. There is a limited amount of track time for qualifying and only certain class combinations that fit on the track. We could bring more classes if we invited fewer cars in each class so that there could be some logical class combinations for qualifying. We need to really start thinking outside the box regarding the Runoffs, but there are many parts to the puzzle.

Regarding television, it is currently tied to the SPEED contract with Pro Racing. Right now that contract is good through this year. I can tell you that the BOD was as stunned as everyone else to find out that we were going to be on TV when we were this year. After a number of years in a prime spot I guess we just got complacent. I will be working on seeing what can be done for this year. Somebody stated that the cost for TV production was around $1.5 million. I have been told it is closer to 1/5th of that. That being said, it is not something that we can afford to do on our own.

Brian

[charrbq]

Kind of. We campaigned the same car in IT and GP for 2 years. The first year (2001) Chris won the regional GP and ITB championships, and he spent the summer of 2002 building a GP car--which made it's debut at the Labor Day races in Topeka, went to the regional races at Mid-Ohio right before the Runoffs, and then was 6th at the Runoffs. The IT car never raced at the Runoffs (although it was there as a backup).
But I think he made his point--it can be done.
[/b]

Sorry Leslie, I thought Chris told me the car was too worn out, I didn't know he meant the crew. I know you guys work like no one else can on that car when it's not on the track.

[lateapex911]

Brian, my general reations, randomly...

I'm still scratching my heads on the Prep thing. I kinda see it, but not all the way. I seee your point about having fully subscribed fields at the Runoffs...but adding classes like Prep wasn't the solution I expected. On one hand you point to the desire to keep IT Regional as a cost control method, yet the new classes will be hugely expensive, if they shake out. It is hard for me to imagine full fields of competitive Prep cars, but maybe I don't have a good handle on the market.

It strikes me that IF IT were a national class, you'd have fuller IT class races than half the other classes. I know the BOD hasa no interest in seeing old cars out there though.

On the TV thing, I understood that the SPEED coverage was tied to the WC coverage. But, I'm worried that SPEEDs core viewer is getting further and further from roadracing, and that SPEEDs desire to cover the WC races will get more and more expensive. I wonder if the horse is out of the barn in terms of Runoffs coverage on that, or any other network.

[JoshS]

There is a limited amount of track time for qualifying and only certain class combinations that fit on the track. We could bring more classes if we invited fewer cars in each class so that there could be some logical class combinations for qualifying. We need to really start thinking outside the box regarding the Runoffs, but there are many parts to the puzzle.
[/b]

I don't think I'd be the only one to say that 4 qualifying sessions is overkill, and I'm a Runoffs competitor. Surely at least one of those days could be a race day instead, even if it has no TV coverage.

And I still don't buy the cost-escalation argument if IT were to go National. It's already there in most places, and we can see now that with most National classes, in most regions, you have to spend more to win a National championship than you do win a Regional championship. If regional championship remains someone's goal, the cost of that won't go nuts, as the big budget efforts will be running National races. I'd be willing to predict that in some regions, the cost of a regional championship will go DOWN, since the big budget efforts won't be in that battle anymore.

[cherokee]

Let me just say Thanks to Brian for posting here, it does show that there is an effort made to keep us in the loop.

The cam and pickup comment was an off the cuff comment, I personally think that the specs for any IT car can be come up with, if not how do we know if it is a legal IT car?

As far as if IT becomes a national class it will get too expensive, I just don't buy it. People are going to spend what they are going to spend, I would bet that a top rung E36, 944, VW, Honda.....costs some real money. I know what I have spent on my IT car and it is a pretty penny. I would bet that the top finishing cars have money and time spent on them already. Using a name already brought up, I would bet that if Chris Albin ran a Runoff ITB VW I doubt he would spend a ton more money on it then he does already, would he spend more vs. going to Atlanta...I know the tow would be cheaper. I don't think he would spend any more then a Atlanta effort, I also bet he would finish pretty well, the same could be said for anyone in that league. The top IT drivers are already spending the money, time, effort doing the research, they just don't get the same level playing field against the other classes, or get the same rewards, and by most they don't even get the same respect as a driver in a national class.


You talk about being competitive in the market place, do you realy think that having a class like prep is the answer? How many people are going to be able to afford to run one of these cars for a season. I would bet that you would get a lot more folks out with a Factory Five type class then a class that is half a tick from a GT class. To me it looks like it would have been closer to re-vamp one of the GT classes and your new Prep class and mush them together then to go messing with IT. But we all know the reasons behind IT being the feeder.....we don't count, don't mess with a national class most of them don't have car counts as it is, and even a well preped IT car has a snowballs chance of beating a halfway good WC car, so that will not effect the finishing order that much.

I will take off the Oliver Stone hat now

It is hard to tell inflection with the way I write, I don't want to sound testy just trying to make my point...have a good debate. I wish I was better with the written word I could get my points and ideas across a little better.

[tnord]

IT going national won&#39;t raise costs to maintain your current finishing position??? <---that&#39;s me laughing hysterically from the perspective of one foot in the SM pond and one foot in the IT pond.

One of the problems that I have with the 24 class rule is that we now have a competition between classes for a spot at the Runoffs. [/b]

how is this a problem? this passes the buck from the BOD deciding who gets to play and forces the competitors to find a way to consolidate or die. sounds good to me. do you not agree that we have too many classes already (judging by other comments, it seems as though you don&#39;t).

Basically it allows them to be exempt from the SIR and weight requirements in exchange for not taking advantage of the rules regarding compression ratio, camshafts, porting, pistons, brakes, pickup points, etc. [/b]

if the BOD is concerned with legality enforcement in IT as it&#39;s own national class, how is it any less of a problem in Prepared? because they theoretically are uncompetitive? garbage.

We’ve got to be more competitive in the marketplace. That means bringing new ideas and classes forward. I think Prepared is a good start, although the stigma of calling it a class for ex-WC cars makes me cringe. We also need a closer tie to the tuner market and newer automobiles. [/b]

yeah, we did, it&#39;s called ITR. it&#39;s the cheapest and easiest place to play for newer/faster vehicles. how in the world do you expect under 30yr olds making sub 50k/yr to buy, build, or maintain a Prepared vehicle? this is the BOD&#39;s solution to bringing new younger members?

It is not the number of classes that is the issue; it is the number of competitors in each class. [/b]

do you not make the connection here? the more classes you have the fewer competitors there will be in each class. did you look at the NASA national championship entry list last year?

We need to really start thinking outside the box regarding the Runoffs, but there are many parts to the puzzle. [/b]

really? i&#39;m pretty sure it&#39;s an easy fix, and you guys had it figured out at one point then went and screwed it up. make every class national and the top 24/25 get to go; effective 2008. done. the only way it gets complicated is being to scared to alienate a very small group of people relative to the whole.

[IPRESS]

Was that the kinder gentler Travis? :P

I vote for less qualifying sessions and more races (at the Runoffs). Of course I also like IT being Regional. You may not think the price of poker will go up with a Runoffs carrot stuck out there, But you are sadly mistaken. The ONLY reason I would support IT going National would be for it to have EQUAL track time in our DIV. The DIVs that have lots of DBL Reg. weekends are in good shape now.

Mac (envious of the SEDIV IT schedule)

[DavidM]

Stan, thanks for checking in. Our con call was kinda screwed up last night as the phone system was broken, and I joined late. I thought I heard some comments on the whole IT in Proep thing, and I *thought* I heard that IT cars wouln&#39;t be counted towards Prep numbers. Is that really the case? I can&#39;t see how that could be happen...who breaks it out?

I DID get an answer on the 1990 cutoff. If you are in a car that has a 1990 version on your spec line, (like the 2nd gen RX-7) you&#39;re good to go.
[/b]

Cool. My 1989 240SX should be ok then. I was starting to wonder. I&#39;m gonna laugh my ass off if I run in DP in June and wind up on the podium because only 1 or 2 prepared cars show up.

I knew the whole national thing was going to start again. I for one think the top guys won&#39;t spend anymore because they already build full-out efforts. It&#39;ll probably get more expensive to run mid-pack, but that&#39;s the way it goes. As long as the racing&#39;s good does it matter? You&#39;ll still be able to go out and just run around if that&#39;s what you want to do. I always thought the challenge of going faster was part of the game.

I still like beer, but only good beer (no budweiser or busch or any other water)

David

[JeffYoung]

Stan, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to me.

[Bill Miller]

if the BOD is concerned with legality enforcement in IT as it&#39;s own national class, how is it any less of a problem in Prepared? because they theoretically are uncompetitive? garbage.
[/b]

BINGO!!!

Brian,

I was simply repeating what someone stated that Mr. Julow told him directly. Didn&#39;t see anybody jump up and contradict it then. If he did not say that, I stand corrected.

[p.keane]

Jake, I do not know what call you were on, but that was never said last night. PK

[lateapex911]

Peter, do you mean the part I was unsure of...about the counts, or the ability to run an 89 RX-7 if it&#39;s on the same spec line as a 90 RX-7? (like the ITS cars?)

[p.keane]

The part about the count. You are right about the car years. PK

[PSherm]

Brian, my general reations, randomly...

It strikes me that IF IT were a national class, you&#39;d have fuller IT class races than half the other classes. I know the BOD has no interest in seeing old cars out there though.

[/b]

Jake, if this is true, then why is Prod still a National class?

[Andy Bettencourt]

A lot has been said here but I can tell you all this. With Chris and Peter on the CRB, Improved Touring is more represented than it ever has been. I am very excited about this - they are turing the ship slowly.

Let&#39;s not get down on the CRB too much WRT IT. What is it we want that we don&#39;t have now? National status is a doubl-edged sword that some people want and some don&#39;t. The CRB is just as responsive to IT requests as they are to anyone. I don&#39;t feel slighted at all. Would *I* like to run my ITA car Nationally? You bet - but that doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s the best thing for the category.

[planet6racing]

Jake, if this is true, then why is Prod still a National class?
[/b]

Exactly. And all this talk about not being able to police the old cars? Come on. They don&#39;t get much older than the Prod cars. Plus, IT cars are far less likely to release the toxic Lucas Smoke on track, thereby making it safer for the workers!

[JohnRW]

Let&#39;s not get down on the CRB too much WRT IT. [/b]

Correct. Remember that the majority pf opinions expressed here on IT.com do not necessarily reflect the majority of opinions held by IT racers in general. &#39;Self-selecting poll&#39; - http://www.aaxnet.com/topics/polls.html