Zekert Excluded from CRB Town Hall by SCCA Pres. New Topic Reply to Topic

[Joe Harlan]

They all have e-mail, its on the scca.com website... e-mail thme if you have questions.

The fee for the meeting is fine with me, and if you don't like it you don't need to go. It is NOT the only way to reach your represenatives. YOU ALL KNOW THAT!!!

What is a shame is that drivers are bitching about having to help pay for the annual meeting costs, but workers never complain and continue to PAY to go to every event and volunteer their time... Some of you are pathetic, rich, and completely... whatever, over and out.

Raymond "If it was free none of you would still go anyway, so quit bitching loosers" Blethen
[/b]

Yeah Raymond that's it. We are rich whining loosers.....Way to handle yourself....As far as workers go stuff that shit... I am as pro worker as anyone and workers are participants in a hobby just like the rest of us that does not make them a special case it makes them enthusiasts like the rest of us. I don't know about your world part of the world but we feed and provide a fair amount of beer and other spiffs out here. Our worker have the opportunity to have their dues paid in part or whole depending on how much time they work.....I personally stop and give MY victory lap flags to a corner station everytime I win one....So please kiss my rich whining looser butt when it comes to that subject. As far as the business meeting goes there should not be charge one for attending that meeting or any meeting that has to do with the business of SCCA a club that I am a 17 year member of.

OH and BTW....I have emailed my questions and gotten NO response....I emailed my question on how much Roadracing pays for SOLO insurance and got no reply....I do have the official records of our iinsurance payouts from 1998 to 2002 and I bet they will answer when those questions are asked publicly.

[JeffYoung]

If you want to make a free point to the BoD, WRITE THEM.

If you want to attend a meeting they set up, that is catered, etc. and involves a cost, PAY THE COST.

[Greg Amy]

The fee for the meeting is fine with me, and if you don't like it you don't need to go.[/b]

Dude, did you really write that? "Let them eat cake" and all that? Looks like we're back in the fifties. What's next...gotta be a WASP before you can join the "club"...?

If you want to attend a meeting they set up, that is catered, etc. and involves a cost, PAY THE COST.[/b]

See, that's the wrong attitude, Jeff. The annual meeting is something that is required as part of the charter of the club, something that is a part of doing business. As such, the expenses for that meeting - where 'members' can meet with their board annually - should be absorbed as a part of having the club.

Just because the Board decides to make it all part of an optional fun convention does not mean that this required meeting should now be a part of those paid activities. They are mutually exclusive, yet coincidental, events.

The Board meeting should be open and free to all SCCA members.

[zchris]

Well said Greg and Joe. Many of us, not you Raymond, are tired of sticking our head in the sand. We question our leaders. And expect responces. Such is the nature of progress. I am not going to say one or another of the BOD are a problem. Collectively they just are not leading the way many of us feel is in the clubs best interest. I will not go into examples here. But being able to discuss concerns with this BOD in a public forum, should not be another profit center. Jim Julow removing a member was just wrong on many levels. I would imagine that was instigated by a member of the BOD.
Chris Howard

[RSTPerformance]

I might have been a little harsh, but the reality is everyone has a different way of contacting the BOD, if your region (area) has selected a good BOD, then you will probably find him/her at your local events, nevermind sending him/her a specific e-mail. I know I have had issues with SCCA and sent e-mails. I got swormed with imediate responces and phone calls from people in Topeka, and to them I am a nobody, so I know it is possible to get in contact them.

As far as "annual meeting" stuff, it costs money no matter how you look at it. Unfortunatly someone has to pay for it, I would rather see those that feel they need to go to pay for it, rather than all of us seeing an incresed in national dues to pay for it.

Do I think it is entirely fair, no, but that is how it has been forever (as far as I know), the people whom go to meetings have to pay for travel, hotel, meals, etc. no matter if they are just a crew member, driver, worker or steward. I think that IF they were to "raise our dues" to pay for the annual meeting the same people complaining now would be complaining when the policy changed. It is impossible to please you people. Actually that is not true, probably the only thing that would make you happy is if they had an open/free meeting in a SCCA conference room (very limited overhead costs to hold the meeting). I just hope it is big enough to fit the 3 people from out of town that go.

I am sorry for being harsh, but you really need to realize that you nit pick every little thing SCCA does, and it is starting to get anoying. Personally I don't think that we/you should be changing or attacking this sort of stuff and you should take the energy and work on changing things that will make a difference, sort of follow the role of our recent ITAC & CRB, and make a real changes that actually effect us, and make things better for the club as a whole!!!

Raymond

Quick edit- I do not want to say that I don't disagree with you Chris or others, I do think that several of the BOD members could use replacements, and as with chris I wont go into my personal esperiences and give examples, but I have plenty. Every organization has flaws, I don't thank you for bringing them out. To me many of those flaws do not need to be publically protested, as those public protests hurt the club FAR MORE than any of our current or past BOD member has. The organization is great on a whole, keep your complaints on the SCCA forums where working BOD/CRB/ITAC etc. members should actually be responding. Let this forum (website) help grow our freindships and compainions by attracting new members.

[gran racing]

Jim Julow removing a member was just wrong on many levels. [/b]

With the current structure of the event and basing my opinion on what's been said here, he should have been asked to leave. If I were one of the paying participants, it would have frustrated me to know someone took the back door in.

Without knowing many other details involved in the conference, it&#39;s hard to say if it should be opened up to all members for "free". I do agree that a tiered structure does make sense, and people should be required to register in advance. Let&#39;s just say that the SCCA decides to open this up for members to attend for free. That now requires the club to rent a much larger facility, adding to the cost of the conference. These costs must be paid for somehow, wheither that means the regions fees need to be increased, our membership fees need to be increased, or via some other method. In anycase, it will have some impact on the club&#39;s members. O.k. guys, start writing your draft to complain if this gets changed. <_<

It&#39;s interesting to hear see some of the ways people approach this and other topics, complaining how SCCA doesn&#39;t listen to you, or won&#39;t provide answers to your questions. Based on the way you communicate here (you sometimes come off like an ass), I wonder how you communicate when seeking this information. The guys/gals at the National office are not difficult to get in touch with. I&#39;ve had the pleasure of speaking with Mike Dickerson several times and have nothing but very positive things to say about him. Bring any issues up with your region and let them take it up the ladder if appropriate.

[Joe Harlan]

With the current structure of the event and basing my opinion on what&#39;s been said here, he should have been asked to leave. If I were one of the paying participants, it would have frustrated me to know someone took the back door in.

Without knowing many other details involved in the conference, it&#39;s hard to say if it should be opened up to all members for "free". I do agree that a tiered structure does make sense, and people should be required to register in advance. Let&#39;s just say that the SCCA decides to open this up for members to attend for free. That now requires the club to rent a much larger facility, adding to the cost of the conference. These costs must be paid for somehow, wheither that means the regions fees need to be increased, our membership fees need to be increased, or via some other method. In anycase, it will have some impact on the club&#39;s members. O.k. guys, start writing your draft to complain if this gets changed. <_<

It&#39;s interesting to hear see some of the ways people approach this and other topics, complaining how SCCA doesn&#39;t listen to you, or won&#39;t provide answers to your questions. Based on the way you communicate here (you sometimes come off like an ass), I wonder how you communicate when seeking this information. The guys/gals at the National office are not difficult to get in touch with. I&#39;ve had the pleasure of speaking with Mike Dickerson several times and have nothing but very positive things to say about him. Bring any issues up with your region and let them take it up the ladder if appropriate.
[/b]

Dave, I have worked with some nice people at the national office and my complaint was not with Mike Dickerson. He explained the situation and nothing more(his job) As far as coming off like an ass I can promise you that every written request I have ever made to the national office and the BOD has been nothing less than professional. You may be right that I am an Ass from time to time but the fact is I give what I get. Call me a whining looser and you will receive the same in return. Please take the time and read the bylaws, This meeting is a required meeting spelled out in the bylaws. The national convention is a social function they happen to be on the same weekend. There is nothing in the bylaws that indicate there should be a charge to attend the business meeting of OUR club. As a matter a fact if you look at it right our dues our entry fees our membership is what pays the largest share of any of these deals.
We have a BOD that voted to move all of our staff and offices to topeka kansas, our solo nationals are held in Topeka, Our National runoffs are held in Topeka Our offices are in topeka. Why is our convention not in Kansas? As a club we are now paying for our staff to travel to Texas? We paid for a number of our staff to attend the PRI show. You talk about things going up because a driver or two may want to attend a business meeting while ignoring where the real increase in our costs come from. Please if you want to bury your head in the sand do it completely. Don&#39;t just pop it out of the ground to call shit on those of us that are actually looking for real ways to contain costs and grow this sport.

Finally Dave, I do come across as an ass but if you were ever in trouble at a race track you would not find anyone more willing to help. I maybe an ass about it but you could be sure everthing that could be done would be done to make sure you raced.

[charrbq]

Joe,
The next time you prepare a list of questions to the board or whomever, would you please include some of mine that seem to get no response? You could even tie them into yours, if you&#39;d like.

When does SCCA Enterprises plan to pay back the money they took(stole) from club racing to finance their effort...starting in 1983 and continuing today?

Could they take the money used to keep SCCA Enterprises afloat and direct it toward reducing the expenses of things like national conventions?


Having a dues paying member pony up more bucks to attend a mandatory club meeting is like taxing a tax. Didn&#39;t we go to war a while back on such a similar subject?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Bottom line, you should be able to attend the Town Hall for free. But you HAVE TO register. This is a members club so keeping track of non-member participation/disruption is a must.

It is obvious to me that something will be done in terms of a tiered system next year. It makes sense. I am just tired of all the &#39;look at me&#39; ways of shedding light on this stuff. A &#39;press release&#39;? Please. You will find you will catch way more flies with sugar than with piss and vinegar. Most of these people are very resonable when you ask instead of tell. Our BoD member made a presentation at our Annual Meeting. After he was done, I felt good about the future of Pro, financial visability and Enterprises.

As far a Joe being as ass, he is not. He, like all of us at times, has a hard time harnessing his passion through the keyboard. It&#39;s the nature of the beast.

[Joe Harlan]

Bottom line, you should be able to attend the Town Hall for free. But you HAVE TO register. This is a members club so keeping track of non-member participation/disruption is a must.


As far a Joe being as ass, he is not. He, like all of us at times, has a hard time harnessing his passion through the keyboard. It&#39;s the nature of the beast.
[/b]

As stated Andy I did try to register I did not pay the 295 dollars to register but i did buy a plane ticket and I did reserve a room at the Holiday Inn, The only reason I am not there raising the issues myself was Debs accident. When I called and explained I was only attending the town hall meeting and the CRB meeting I expected some effort would be made to allow that to happen. What I got was you should have registered 2 days ago and it would have been 50 dollars less. Again I would have paid it. to ask the questions I had have not gotten a satisfactory answer to.

As far as your last line goes. Your back on my Christmas card list but please don&#39;t be spreading the rumor I am not an Ass. I have spent a lot of time and money building that rep and I don&#39;t want to be exposed as anything less..... :P


Chris: That was one of the questions on the list but I have to tell you. The real issues are loans at below market rate to Pro and insurance. I don&#39;t want to re kindle that flame but the fact is I now have actual payout records for 1998 to 2002 and they show a completely different story than you have been told. I am still working on the total numbers and will have that info on saveclubracing site soon.

[gran racing]

You talk about things going up because a driver or two may want to attend a business meeting while ignoring where the real increase in our costs come from. Please if you want to bury your head in the sand do it completely. Don&#39;t just pop it out of the ground to call shit on those of us that are actually looking for real ways to contain costs and grow this sport. [/b]

I never said a driver or two. To make this open, it would need to allow all members of SCCA to attend.

Burry my head in sand...call shit on those of us looking for real ways to contain costs and grow this sport? Now that&#39;s funny! I&#39;ve put some serious effort and fincial investment into trying to do my small part in growing this sport. Hopefully we&#39;ll be able to think of better ways to grow our sport than this effort. LOL

For the record Joe, I said "(you sometimes come off like an ass)". My point was how one would react to various methods of communication. You&#39;ve said it yourself in your signature, no? "I just type like a pompous ass!" Besides, I haven&#39;t actually called you an ass, yet? (Just teasing.)

[Joe Harlan]

I never said a driver or two. To make this open, it would need to allow all members of SCCA to attend.

Burry my head in sand...call shit on those of us looking for real ways to contain costs and grow this sport? Now that&#39;s funny! I&#39;ve put some serious effort and fincial investment into trying to do my small part in growing this sport. Hopefully we&#39;ll be able to think of better ways to grow our sport than this effort. LOL

For the record Joe, I said "(you sometimes come off like an ass)". My point was how one would react to various methods of communication. Besides, you&#39;ve said it yourself in your signature, no? "I just type like a pompous ass!" Besides, I haven&#39;t actually called you an ass, yet? (Just teasing.)
[/b]

dave, I think I let my brain get ahead of my fingers again. Some of that statement was refering back to raymonds statement. Yes the business meeting should be free to all of our members as a matter a fact I believe it would cost very little to Webcast this meeting so we could all take part in it.....Lets put in in a term we all understand. I will cost you close to two sets of race tires to attend this meeting if you live outside of driving range.....Not right.

Pompous ass will be proudly displayed on my race car this season.....

[charrbq]

Joe,
What&#39;s the safeclubracing site? I&#39;ve heard about it, but can&#39;t find out much.

[tom91ita]

.......but please don&#39;t be spreading the rumor I am not an Ass. I have spent a lot of time and money building that rep and I don&#39;t want to be exposed as anything less..... :P........[/b]

for some reason, seeing "Ass" and "exposed" in the same sentence, cracked me up!

and i am glad to see someone noting that the passion of the keyboard is a difficult translator, this should be discussed over and not

[Joe Harlan]

Joe,
What&#39;s the safeclubracing site? I&#39;ve heard about it, but can&#39;t find out much.
[/b]

Chris, I started a site to try to pull all this political stuff away from car specific sites and get members workign toward a cause. http://www.saveclubracing.com I bought and paid for this site as my contribution to the membership. I have offered to donate the complete site to a group if moderators so it does not come across as my site.

Tom, you caught that....It would not be the first tiem I exposed my ass in public.....

[88YB1]

I did two new things receintly. Investing in the stock market and driving a rece car. Being familiar with Home Depot it was onre of the first stocks I bought. At the very first stock holders meeting the BOD and CEO laughed in the stock holders face. As A resuld Denardi is no longer there.
A company belongs to the stock holders and a club belongs to it&#39;s members. If you don&#39;t like the way the leadership is handling it speak at the ballot box.

Chuck Willyard
324270

[ddewhurst]

*** Denardi ***

Chuck, I don&#39;t remember his name but it was not the name you stated. It is something starting with an N. (Nardilie ?) Second the entire BoD should be removed for his hire contract with a $210,000,000.00 buy out or whatever it&#39;s called.

[IPRESS]

Boy...... do we need warm weather and the racing season to start.

[planet6racing]

Damn straight we do. It&#39;s -10 here this morning and I walked in my 2 miles just so I can start getting into shape for the season!

You know, every morning I click the IT.com link and wonder why I don&#39;t visit this site as much anymore. I&#39;ve just found my reason.

The rules stated that everyone in attendance must pay a registration fee. Just like the rules state that everyone involved in a club weekend must sign the waiver. Or like, if your car came with a washer bottle, you must have it in IT.

[Bill Miller]

Every organization has flaws, I don&#39;t thank you for bringing them out. To me many of those flaws do not need to be publically protested, as those public protests hurt the club FAR MORE than any of our current or past BOD member has.[/b]

Raymond,

With out trying to be rude or harsh, you really don&#39;t get it. Your attitude is exactly what the people that perpetrate this stuff want. Don&#39;t shine a light on it, so they can keep on doing what they&#39;re doing. That&#39;s exactly what we DON&#39;T need to do. If that&#39;s the approach you take, it will never get any better, or go away.

And as far as the comment about the protests hurting more, I have only 2 words for you. Fran Am!

For the money that we spent on that, we could have held a free meeting for all members for the next several years!