Un-tunable ECU's

[DaveITB1]

ITB '80-'83 BMW 320i
ITB '84-'86 BMW 318i

[Joe Harlan]

Dave I am confused. These are L-jet based cars with mechanical distributer that can be curved like any other and the stock box can be richened and leaned can it not? It's been a couple years since I worked on these older cars every day but I was pretty good with these systems back in the day. MY poin is I think these systems can make the gains with physical adjustment rather than even needing chips.

[bamfp]

The 1.8 was the only one that came with L-jet. The 1.7 and 2.0 had the D-jet. Not much adjustment other then fuel pressure. Plus it would be cheaper to run aftermarket EFI then make a 30+ year old system work. Most parts are NLA and good used parts are getting harder to find.

Blake Meredith

[Joe Harlan]

The 1.8 was the only one that came with L-jet. The 1.7 and 2.0 had the D-jet. Not much adjustment other then fuel pressure. Plus it would be cheaper to run aftermarket EFI then make a 30+ year old system work. Most parts are NLA and good used parts are getting harder to find.

Blake Meredith
[/b]

Sorry blake but I think this is one of the reasons I would really be against it. The performance change from gang fire to sequential fire would be really big. This is exactly why this stuff belongs in production or GT rather than a complete philosophy change to IT. I know tuning a D-jet system isn't easy but it can be done.

[jlucas]

Most OBD2 Hondas until the RSX, 06 Civic, and 06 S2000 have a fixed ROM.

ODB1 conversion (which is chippable) is possible for those ODB2 cars but not for every car under the current rules because the its a different sized case, internal board, and ECU connector type. Honda or Acuras that have OBD1 and OBD2 cars on the same spec line can revert back to OBD1 with update-backdate.

[robits325is]

Un-tunable or unable to reach their 'process' potential? Big difference.

[lateapex911]

Uh Joe, I made a simple mistake. Chill out, theres no conspiracy here. Tell us more on the approval process. Who exactly does it, what do they do and how does the information get distributed and checked?

And please note Jake DAUGHTER board. please don't confuse the discussion by saying mother board you know thats a completely different deal.

List of cars [/b]

[Joe Harlan]

Specs for any add-on board would be submitted to the CRB just like any other approved part. The process to do this is already in place as this is how it is done for the touring catagory. It is clear to me that when people say things aren't tunable that they have not looked at all the options. If it has a a chip it has a program. If a pompass clod like myself can de-solder a chip and solder in a socket then anyone can do it. Look at the technosquare link, they sell Techtom stuff which seems to have the largest Jap car coverage.

[shwah]

To my knowledge every watercooled VW (and most of the older Audis) can be chip tuned, or resistor tuned, or 'mechanically' tuned for fueling. Ignition can be addressed within the current rules.

They cannot all have a nice, wide process window set of optimum maps, but when I race, my motor spends most of the time at WOT and 4k + rpm, so a super wide process window is not needed. I don't worry much about how it runs in the paddock and warmup lap, as long as it keeps running and goes when the green flies.

There are some old 'chipped' CIS-E boxes floating around that a UK company was charging a fortune for, but I think they are NLA.

That said, I do think small gains could be acheived with a programable, fully mapped system. I just would not go there without being at 100% on all other aspects of the powerplant. This is the first year that I have seriously considered converting to a stock electronic injection system and taking advantage of the current rule using Megasquirt or Microsquirt in a California spec. Digifant box. However - I am still not sold on it - my current setup allows me to get the fuel right where I want it, and works well enough to win in a G Production car.

[Conover]

What is available for the 1.8L miata? Anything, only thing I can find is a plug and play replacement ECU.

[Doc Bro]

The BMW m-44 motor in the 318 and Z3 can have a reflash done but it only raises the rev limit to 7K. There is no reflash geared toward performance available.

R

[Joe Harlan]

The BMW m-44 motor in the 318 and Z3 can have a reflash done but it only raises the rev limit to 7K. There is no reflash geared toward performance available.

R
[/b]

Rob, your saying nobody has done it yet. If they can reflash to raise revs than there is a way to reflash the whole fuel&timing curve.

[Doc Bro]

Rob, your saying nobody has done it yet. If they can reflash to raise revs than there is a way to reflash the whole fuel&timing curve.
[/b]

Joe, That's exactly what I'm saying. Maybe there's someone you could point me toward to get that done?

R

[JoshS]

Joe, That's exactly what I'm saying. Maybe there's someone you could point me toward to get that done?
[/b]

Dinan or Jim Conforti could do it. Talk to them directly, not to a dealer. It'll cost you, of course. Just because there's no off-the-shelf tune for racing doesn't mean it can't be done, it just means noone has been willing to pay for it yet.

[Joe Harlan]

Look at the same place that is raising rev limits. Ask them if they will do a custom map. If not find out who their programmer is and go into business for yourself. My point is that it's not a case of can't it is a case of hasn't.

http://www.activeautowerke.com/software/main.php

these guys say they do custom race applications.

[Eagle7]

Look at the same place that is raising rev limits. Ask them if they will do a custom map. If not find out who their programmer is and go into business for yourself. [/b]

So IT will be destroyed by making readily available, easy to use, and cheap ECUs legal, and the solution is for Joe racer to start his own ECU programming business so he can stick to the stock hardware. Joe, your logic escapes me.

[shwah]

So IT will be destroyed by making readily available, easy to use, and cheap ECUs legal, and the solution is for Joe racer to start his own ECU programming business so he can stick to the stock hardware. Joe, your logic escapes me.
[/b]

I don't know about any of these rules in discussion destroying IT either way. Over time the way we handle such items probably will have an impact, and some sort of consistent direction will help this, but I feel that the ITAC is working hard to provide that consistency.

Some guys can't find a decent differential, or bushings, or air dam, or strut brace, or fill in the blank for their chosen car. They have to design/build or pay someone else to do that too. The car you pick is the car you have, warts and all. If there is no chip tuning available, that is one of the downsides of that car. It may not mean it can't be done, and if it can't you can probably use other methods to get the fueling right anyhow, but it means it hasn't been done.

The actual tuning will be the real expense of an aftermarket ecu, unless you have access to a free dyno.

[Z3_GoCar]

Joe,

You're assuming that just because one person makes a reflash for limited subset of the Bosch M5.2 ECU then it's tuneable? A Dinan reflash does not a tunable make, acutally I don't think it's a reflash as you need to send the whole ECU in. All this for one size fits all increased rev limit? They don't say what they do if anything to perform their Dinan magic. If it was worth the effort to crack then Jim Conforti would have cracked it, but he offers nothing. There used to be some bb posts on efforts to crack it. When the manufacture places random check sums in the unpublished programming to ensure untamperability. Sure maybe pay a guy for 6 months of effort, and then he won't be able to use it on every one that gets sent to them, or maybe he's still not able to crack it. Now the six cyclinder cars use a Seimens unit that's been cracked for years, but I didn't put a Seimens controled car on the list did I?

Note that AA does tuning on six cylinder car's, not one four is listed either. It's untuneable as stated.

[nlevine]

..acutally I don't think it's a reflash as you need to send the whole ECU in.
[/b]

James - Actually, any authorized Dinan dealer can install the software - the ECU does not have to be sent in. It is a re-flash. Dinan claims some HP improvement (but <10), and it does raise the rev limit (which may help lap times if it eliminates a shift or two per lap).

Now, finding somebody with the right interface software, a dyno lying around, and the knowledge to do a real race tune is a different matter.. It&#39;s absolutely possible, but will likely cost cubic dollars due to lack of demand, and the return you get on that investment is an unknown at the moment due to lack of a broad base of data.. Everybody races a BMW 6-cylinder, it&#39;s just us loonies trying to make the 4-bangers perform. Now, if I could bolt on a Downing-Atlanta supercharger without anybody noticing, I could get some real power out of that 1.9!

-noam

[Andy Bettencourt]

Now, if I could bolt on a Downing-Atlanta supercharger without anybody noticing, I could get some real power out of that 1.9!

-noam [/b]

Wouldn&#39;t it make sense that if you did a SC for it, you would almost HAVE to offer a CPU upgrade? Anybody with aftermarket parts of this nature for these things must have broken the code.