No ITR in San Francisco Region in '07?

[JoshS]

I have just been told that San Francisco Region, as of right now, is not planning on including the ITR class in their 2007 regional series. Instead, ITR cars can run as ITE.

This is unacceptable! If you agree, please send a letter to the San Francisco Region ([email protected], it will be forwarded to the powers that be). There is a region board meeting on January 27th where this could be discussed. All of the new classes are on the agenda for that meeting.

I hope I'm not building this car just to compete at the back of ITE. This is quite upsetting.

[dickita15]

wow, if true it must be the largest region in the country can not afford an extra $6 plague.

[Knestis]

You need to find out which ITE entrant - or entrants - is exerting the clout on this decision...

K

[ed325its]

How can any region exclude a nationally recognized class?

[mlytle]

How can any region exclude a nationally recognized class?
[/b]

good question. itr is not a regionally generated optional class. it is a "nationally recognized regional class".

if the won't run an itr class, they are running a restricted regional. they need to read the rules on restricted regionals. having a series without all classes represented is a problem.

maybe they just mean itr will not have it's own run group? the class can run, but will be running in the same run group as ite? that would be "normal".

[BMW RACER]

Hey Josh.

Come South and race with us! We have ITR and I'm planning on running in it.

Seriously, I wonder if they can get a sanction from SCCA national if they don't run all the classes. Maybe you should contact someone in Topeka

[racer_tim]

Josh, playing devils advocate, what run group would you put ITR in?

If you put it in group 1, with ITE, the region looses entrants, since they couldn't run in ITE and ITR.

Put it in with Group 5 (IT and Small Bore) you'll drive out the rest of the handful of small bore prod cars

I don't think that the Group 3 (Big Bore) group would want them there, since they would be hood ornaments for SP, GT1 and GTA.

I know, put it in group 7 and let them run with Spec Maita. Now that would be exciting.

I will also bring this up at the chiefs meeting. I'd also suggest sending e-mails to Kathy Johnson, SFR chief of tech.

[JoshS]

maybe they just mean itr will not have it's own run group? the class can run, but will be running in the same run group as ite? that would be "normal".
[/b]

No, the region board is questioning the need for all of these new classes, and they are talking about whether or not they are obligated to accept them. Until a decision is made (presumably on January 27th), ITR cars are expected to run "as" ITE cars, not just "with" them.

Josh, playing devils advocate, what run group would you put ITR in?

If you put it in group 1, with ITE, the region looses entrants, since they couldn't run in ITE and ITR.

Put it in with Group 5 (IT and Small Bore) you'll drive out the rest of the handful of small bore prod cars
[/b]

No doubt, I'd put it in group 5. These are IT cars and they should be with other IT cars. We're talking about 5 or so cars tops in '07, I'd think. We had small bore prod cars (and GTL) running with us (T2) at the National races, with T1 and AS! ITR cars will be about the same speed as T2, I think.

I will also bring this up at the chiefs meeting. I'd also suggest sending e-mails to Kathy Johnson, SFR chief of tech.
[/b]

Thanks, I'd appreciate that. I did manage to speak with Bryan Nemy, one of our region board members, who told me that they will definitely be discussing this on the 27th, and that he'd be surprised if it doesn't get approved. Still, I'm really pissed that they'd even consider not accepting it. The national BOD has already bought into the value of the additional class, and I just don't think it's the region board's role to question it in this manner. Do they want to mutiny or something?

Anyway, If they don't approve the class, then I've got an awful lot of time and money in a car that has no place to play. I didn't build it to be 10+ seconds/lap behind ITE, I built it to try to win ITR. I'll go to BMW Club or NASA and blow off my 18-year membership if they don't work this out.

[JoshS]

Followup: this is all spelled out in the GCR. Page 68, chapter 9.1:

"Organizers of SCCA Regional, National Championship, and Interdivisional Championship events shall provide competitions for the following classes and categories." (Improved Touring, and specifically ITR, follows.)

Seems like regions have no choice in the matter. I've pointed this out to the region's board. I'm feeling better now.

[lateapex911]

F&@K them, LOL.
No way, no how can they pull that on a regular sanction. Total BS. And WHAT is the big deal?? The cars will be a few seconds faster than ITS., or around EP times....and with the small initial turnout, there should be NO problem slipping the class into the EP or ITS group.

Just ridiculous. :026:

[JoshS]

Apparently, they can do that. Turns out that all of the SFR regional races are already restricted regionals, because they don't use the national SM rules.

I guess maybe I'd have known that if I'd run any regionals last year.

[RSTPerformance]

that is crap...

[dj10]

F&@K them, LOL.
No way, no how can they pull that on a regular sanction. Total BS. And WHAT is the big deal?? The cars will be a few seconds faster than ITS., or around EP times....and with the small initial turnout, there should be NO problem slipping the class into the EP or ITS group.

Just ridiculous. :026:
[/b]

What a crock of Shit! Remind them what happened to Saddam

[lateapex911]

When we first came up with the ITR concept, we went to several regions to discuss it getting added to run groups, to see if it would cause problems. The regions we spoke to, were all supportive, and said that it was a class that could slot in several areas easily. The resistance in SF is troubling. Whats going on out there?

[Knestis]

Seriously - which board members run ITE? Inquiring minds want to know. It's protectionism, in some form or another...

K

[JoshS]

Seriously - which board members run ITE? Inquiring minds want to know. It's protectionism, in some form or another...
[/b]

I wouldn't assume that it's protectionism, but I don't really know what's behind it. Appears that only one board member scored any points in ITE in '06, and not too many (probably didn't run the full season in that class, but I didn't do a thorough search).

[Z3_GoCar]

Josh, playing devils advocate, what run group would you put ITR in?

If you put it in group 1, with ITE, the region looses entrants, since they couldn't run in ITE and ITR.

Put it in with Group 5 (IT and Small Bore) you'll drive out the rest of the handful of small bore prod cars

I don't think that the Group 3 (Big Bore) group would want them there, since they would be hood ornaments for SP, GT1 and GTA.

I know, put it in group 7 and let them run with Spec Maita. Now that would be exciting.

I will also bring this up at the chiefs meeting. I'd also suggest sending e-mails to Kathy Johnson, SFR chief of tech.
[/b]

Funny Tim,

Last regional I outran an SP car. Here in the South, ITE is run with SP, GT, and Production. I think there was as much a speed differential between me and the H-Production Sprites as Andy Potterfield's GT-1 car and me, now there's a real speed differential GT-1 to H-Production. Even as an ITE car I couldn't keep up with John's ITS 325, I say put them in with the rest of IT. Really they won't be that much faster than ITS. It'll take a year or two to get the development to the poin that ITR will really be significantly faster.

James

[Andy Bettencourt]

I still don't think that they can do this. They have no standing to approve or diapprove the class. The SCCA has approved it. They are obligated to provide a spot for it. The Regional Only classes like ITE are the ones that should be under 'consideration' every year.

Don't let the SM issue cloud this. Read the SM rules carefully. They specifically say that Regions can run their own tire rules etc. It's all on the up and up. This ITR this is total BS. I guess I would ask them under what rule they are not allowing a GCR-based class to participate? If they try and sneak something in under a 'restricted regional', it MUST be in the SUPPS, which have to be approved by HQ.

I expected a lot more from SFR.

[Joe Harlan]

I still don't think that they can do this. They have no standing to approve or diapprove the class. The SCCA has approved it. They are obligated to provide a spot for it. The Regional Only classes like ITE are the ones that should be under 'consideration' every year.

Don't let the SM issue cloud this. Read the SM rules carefully. They specifically say that Regions can run their own tire rules etc. It's all on the up and up. This ITR this is total BS. I guess I would ask them under what rule they are not allowing a GCR-based class to participate? If they try and sneak something in under a 'restricted regional', it MUST be in the SUPPS, which have to be approved by HQ.

I expected a lot more from SFR.
[/b]

I looked hard through the bylaws and I can't find anything that forces a region to host a class. I think the BOD could cause a region grief at charter renewal time. SFR has had more catchall classes for the kind of cars that ITR catches and I don't see it being any skin off their butts not to offer it. Any other regions doing the same?

[Ron Earp]

How many catch all classes do they have? ITE was one that is recognized in many regions, but they have more catch all classes?

Ron