Why it is not about washer bottles

[dickita15]

IT as well as all showroom stock rule sets operate on the principal that if it does not say you can you can not. (IIDNSYCYC). We start with a stock car and specific rules make allowances for the changes needed and wanted to make these vehicles effective race cars. This is a principal to the rules of IT racing.

Because of this there are things like washer bottles, horns and central doorlock systems that we cannot remove. In order to remove them we need to have a rule that says you can. They are just not deemed important enough to have a extra rule that says you can throw them away.

We have rules that allow removal of interior stuff, emissions stuff and radiator shrouds because at some point the group felt those were important enough to make a rule to take them out.

We also have things like door panels that were on the washer bottle group that were deemed important enough to move to the second group.

[Tom Blaney]

Dick

This is exactly why things like washer bottles and central locks should be part of that list of interior stuff etc that can be removed.

Things like washer bottles, stereo speakers, wiring, horns etc are junk items that do not make a race car, and if they get damaged or missing from a junker that is being used as a base for a new buildup they have to be "bought" which now wastes valuable money and resources because the "rules makers" were short sighted in their list of un-necessary items that should fall into the "interior list" above.

It is not that difficult a task to revise a list of extraneous parts to add such junk items that serve no fuctional purpose in a race car.

In showroom stock, the rules are written quite different in that the car (except for disconnect of air bags etc) must be able to pass DOT inspection, and therefore the car configuration is guided by what the manufacturer has installed as part of the "off the showroom floor" configuration.

What we need to keep in mind with this series of regional racing is that most racers have a limited budget, and with the rising costs of track and entry fees, the little extra effort by the AOC and the Comp Board to reduce the time and expense to build and maintain a regional race care is worth the effort. And please before you tell me that the cost of a washer bottle is minute compared to the overall build, it gets down to the concept of regional racing.

[planet6racing]

(not directed at Dick or Tom, but...)

If you don't write a letter, don't bitch about the rules. The GCR has a defined method for effecting a rule change and if you don't follow it, don't complain. If enough people feel that it is needed, the club will act (see ITR). However, don't expect the club to react to one letter (unless you own a Miata).

[gran racing]

... the "rules makers" were short sighted...[/b]

A little harsh Tom, no? You're also taking about how you define IT now. Wasn't it originally a place where old SS cars could have a home? There were & still are people who drive their cars to the track.

I'm a huge proponent of reducing costs / barriers into racing. The washer bottle subject is a joke. It's funny how this is even a discussion in terms of costs. A $10 junk yard washer bottle? On the other hand, this is awesome news! The worst we're complaining about with IT is washer bottles. Now that's pretty freaking cool. While some others use their washer bottles as a catch can, I use it as a, well...washer bottle. There have been time where it has been a nice benefit to clean my windshield while out on the track.

We've discussed this before, but let's say we use the ink (GRC continues to grow) on washer bottles. What's next on the list? Although I'm not following it, there's another thread about the other "useless items that don't belong on our IT cars". If it's not a washer bottle, it will be something else.

[Ron Earp]

There were & still are people who drive their cars to the track.
[/b]

Interesting.

Are any of these people on the board? Does anyone know an IT racer that races routinely, and drives to the track?

I'm just interested to see what percentage of IT racers this group makes. I don't think I've ever seen anyone drive to the track in their IT car. Could drive my car to the track and do drive my car to the track are two different things for purposes of this dicsussion, as well as the phrase "I used to drive to the track".

How many IT racers now drive to the track in the car they race, race, and plan to continue the practice for 2007?

[Knestis]

... Things like washer bottles, stereo speakers, wiring, horns etc are junk items that do not make a race car...[/b]

And so it continues. Wheee! :026:

K

[gran racing]

I race against an ITB driver who drives their car to the track, and it's not just for local events. From NJ (I believe), Zephyr can be found at LRP, the Glen, MidO (including the NASA championships) driving his car to the track.

Kirk, don't you drive you car to the track?

I instruct with a couple show room stock, and touring drivers who drive their car to the track. Yeah, not IT.

[x-ring]

How many IT racers now drive to the track in the car they race, race, and plan to continue the practice for 2007?
[/b]

There's one in RMDiv with an ITA Nissan (Sentra, maybe?). He's been doing it as long as I've been around, so I suspect he's not going to change anytime soon.

[Racerlinn]

There were & still are people who drive their cars to the track.
[/b]

Where's that "raises hand" icon?
I drive it to ORP (formerly IRP) becasue the track is only about 15 miles from my house.
I also drive it to the dozen or so Solo events I run. Plus I drive it to work maybe once a week when the weather is nice.
And yes, it does have a washer bottle.


I know of a pair of ITA Neons that drive several hours to the track as well.

[greendot]

Interesting.

Does anyone know an IT racer that races routinely, and drives to the track?

[/b]

There is a Waterford racer that drives his IT7 car to the track, abut 45 minute ride for him. He also says he drives it during the week.


Now here's a note that I haven't seen ( but I sure as hell haven't read everything about washer bottles, nor do I want to), in the 2nd gen RX7. the washer bottle location makes it harder to route brake cooling ducts on the right side.
Just an observation, no reply required.

[Xian]

Kirk, don't you drive you car to the track?
[/b]

I've seen him drive his ITB Golf to the track...

Personally, I think the IT rules are plenty good at this point and if people keep up the with the idea of "a real race car doesn't have this" or "a real race car has got to have this" we're eventually going to end up driving Prod cars in a decade or two.

Christian, who sees where the line is drawn in the sand and is ok with leaving well enough alone.

[lateapex911]

"Ask any Formula car driver and he'll tell you that a "real race car" isn't made by Chevy or ford or even Porsche.

Think Lola, Reybard, etc.

Ask any formula car driver with wings and he'll tell you it's gotta have wings to be "real". it's all about your perspective....

[Conover]

Interesting.

Are any of these people on the board? Does anyone know an IT racer that races routinely, and drives to the track?

I'm just interested to see what percentage of IT racers this group makes. I don't think I've ever seen anyone drive to the track in their IT car. Could drive my car to the track and do drive my car to the track are two different things for purposes of this dicsussion, as well as the phrase "I used to drive to the track".

How many IT racers now drive to the track in the car they race, race, and plan to continue the practice for 2007?
[/b]

That cracker still does that stuff too! The new Pablo even still has inspection, license plates, and insureance, and can be driven to and from the track or Dyno, or whatever.
http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/events05.php

[Knestis]

To be fair, we aren't currently RACING in completely street-legal form, since we took the catalytic converter off before the 13 Hours but yeah - you finish behind Pablo and you got beat by a street car, bay-bee!

I've driven to MOST of the races that I've done in the last three seasons, including my schools at Roebling, two hillclimbs, a pile of events at VIR, some at CMP... I drove home from the 2005 Summit 12 Hours, after our trailer got highjacked to move Mom's furniture or some silly thing. We ran four hours on the test day, practice, qualifying, and a 12 hour enduro. I had to put a big tie wrap on the rearmost exhaust hanger that had busted, and we did put on the full-tread Toyos, but that was it - 5 hours home to Greensboro, NC.

Point being, no matter what one's conception of a "real race" might be, most of the stuff people get all tweaky about does absolutely nothing to do with limiting on-track performance, safety, or economy...

But a lot of you know that at some level, and persist anyway.

... we're eventually going to end up driving Prod cars in a decade or two. ...[/b]

Hah. That's funny as hell. Your first guess, maybe...

(Cue spooky Ghost of Racing Future theme)

In 10 years, IT has merged with LP Production, with the general category rules just ever so slightly this side of the current LP Prod book, and stepped weight specs to make up the differences between the two - the gearbox rules foremost, because almost NOBODY is THAT freakin' dumb. "Real" production still exist but pressure from entrants of newer cars - and dwindling parts supply and skyrocketing costs - have relegated cars built to those rules as also-rans, relative to the LP Prod and "IT Prod" cars.

Part of the rationale for this move was to boost sagging participation in both categories, as a derivation of the current Touring rules has become the fastest growing category in Club Racing, after the introduction of T4 and T5 as regional-only classes started poaching IT entries like crazy. However, the bigger motivator is that the cars just aren't very different anymore.

Looking back at it, the critical juncture in the "evolution" of IT was marked by the departure of a couple of key members of the ITAC - one to a Ganassi GrandAm team management position, and the other to a vow of silence, celebacy, and ale-brewing with a fringe order of Trappist monks in the mountains near Spa Francorchamps. Their replacements led the "re-visioning" of the category to make the cars more exciting, through the addition of 17 new allowed modifications, eliminating what new SCCA President Matt Berg referred to in a press conference as "very, very stupid rules."

In other news, Berg announced that SCCA national headquarters will be moving to a 110-acre compound in the Ozark Mountains, and NASCAR has issued a press release indicating that it has reached an agreement to purchase the National Auto Sport Association...

This is your future - well, all but the last couple things - boys and girls. Just because I'm not going to try to talk you out of it, doesn't mean I'm going to be quiet about it as you fly the airplane into the ground.

K

[lateapex911]

T

In 10 years, IT has merged with LP Production, with the general category rules just ever so slightly this side of the current LP Prod book,
[/b]

You wouldn't be surprised then to hear that this discussion hasn't already taken place...and been shouted down...

Looking back at it, the critical juncture in the "evolution" of IT was marked by the departure of a couple of key members of the ITAC - one to a Ganassi GrandAm team management position, and the other to a vow of silence, celebacy, and ale-brewing with a fringe order of Trappist monks in the mountains near Spa Francorchamps. [/b]

Hmmmm....name so names! I'd love to see into the future, LOL


K

[Knestis]

Suffice to say you'll be getting a visit for a case, next time I'm in Belgium.

K

[lateapex911]

"Celebacy"??? Oh dear..........

I was hoping I'd be joining the Ganssis organization..better women, I wager, LOL.

[Knestis]

Celebacy, schmelebacy - that Trappist ale is REALLY good. You'll get over it.

K

[Bill Miller]

Celebacy, schmelebacy - that Trappist ale is REALLY good. You'll get over it.

K
[/b]

It's all about the Chimay baby!!! :026:

[PSherm]

It's all about the Chimay baby!!! :026:
[/b]

Eh... I'm more of an Orval guy myself (a beeeautiful abbey btw). But I am anxious to get to all the Westvleteren I've got aging in the cellar...