Rain Racing Driver Education.

[JeffYoung]

The cold wet rain poured down over his driver suit, as he swung his well-muscled leg over the sill of his roaring steed. He gripped the shifter shaft with authority, and prepared to ride....

Ok, I'll stop...lol......

[lateapex911]

jeff...back to the legal breifs buddy...

sheesh!

[spnkzss]

I never understand why, on a wet Friday test day or in wet practice sessions when it's known that it will dry out later, some racers just stay parked in the paddock. Go out, slide around and experiment.
[/b]

I had to convince people to go out and qualify in the rain. They said that there was no reason to go out. The first qualifying session was dry and the second of wet (heavy). I had a blast. There was only about 10 cars out on a 2 mile course. It's also amazing to me that people will drive their street cars in the rain harder then they will drive their races cars on a track.

[JamesB]

while true, I would also say that even on 1/2 tread toyos slippery point is not that easy to drive in hard rain. So if someone through down a good time in the dry many times they will skip the wet qualifier because even if you turn the perfect wet lap it wont be any faster then a very good dry lap.

[Knestis]

... if you turn the perfect wet lap it wont be any faster then a very good dry lap.
[/b]

...and they won't have learned anything about how their car handles when coefficients of friction go way down. And they'll have passed up the chance to scrape some of the yellow stripe off of their back.

K

[spnkzss]

...and they won't have learned anything about how their car handles when coefficients of friction go way down. And they'll have passed up the chance to scrape some of the yellow stripe off of their back.

K
[/b]

Exactly. As a matter of fact, that specific session I wanted to try a set of full tread Toyos versus Dirt Stockers.

[JamesB]

Oh I agree. Though I did retire early after my 3rd or 4th spin that session and figured at that point I was getting mad and its time to hang it up before I meet mr tirewall. I did learn a lot about the wet line on slippery point.

[lateapex911]

I think guys are making risk/reward judgements in those situations. when I go out, they say I'm crazy, the risk of balling the car up is just too high, and the reward ...increased wet weather performance too low, as we never think it will rain again.

Statistics show that I guess i run about one of 25 races in the wet.

So I can see both sides.

But when you have a car that pretty much can't win in the dry if the good guys show, you change your angle, and see if you can't capitalize on oppurtunuty by preparing for it. So I like to try to learn a bit on a wet track.

[joeg]

I ice raced many years, won a number of championships, but know it is not a good wet-paved track learning exercise--it is great fun, but not a valuable teaching aid.

[RSTPerformance]

I ice raced many years, won a number of championships, but know it is not a good wet-paved track learning exercise--it is great fun, but not a valuable teaching aid.
[/b]

Joe-

First, did you have snow/ice tires or tires with DOT legal studs??? If so, I to have done a lot of similar compeating and won a few championships, and I agree to a point, but it certainly had to teach you about car control. I also have raced on Menard Studded Ice Racing Tires (Completely illigal for street use), and IMO that was remarkably similar, with exception to the terain changes that you generally have on a race track. Granted it isn't exactly the same, but how else can you learn how to drive a car sideways and recover in a safe enviroment? The only other way I can think of is at a Pro-Rally or a Rally-X which yes I also think is a valuable way to teach yourself some car control, and recomend it to anyone wishing to advance thier skills.

If I am wrong, and to some I probably am... Also I am not trying to "pick a fight" but I am just wondering... and I guess this puts us back on topic... How do you think that people learn to be "good" or "great" rain racers? Over here in the Northeast we don't have that many rain races, sure a couple a year, but anything you would learn from them is probably forgotten by the next time it rains.

Raymond

PS: Kirk are you good in the rain (as compaired to other similar FWD cars)??? I am suspecting you are from what has been said... do you think that some of those skills that make you "rise above" some of the rest is a result of your years of rallying? Just wondering your opinion.

[StephenB]

I ice raced many years, won a number of championships, but know it is not a good wet-paved track learning exercise--it is great fun, but not a valuable teaching aid.
[/b]

Joeg,

Why do you think that? I have done several Ice races and learned more about car control doing that than anything I have ever done on the track with any club at any point. I may be missing something and I am certainly not trying to start an argument so please explaine. If you are reffering to lowering lap times than I agree because in Ice racing you will not learn anything about a Rain Line... except the idea that you need to "search" for traction and by taking a regular line is probably slower. (Then again studs ruin everything about slipping and sliding so maybe you are reffering to studs as well?)

PS: I still think a wet weather style school would be great at a place like LRP.

I went to a test day in the rain at LRP and learned a ton...
Went out on regular tires and ran the normal line for 1/2 session then the rain line fo rhte rest. went over 2 seconds faster!

I then went out on Dirtstockers and did the same thing. 4 seconds faster on the dry line then switched to the Rain rain and gained another 4 seconds. total net gain was 8 seconds from regular tires to dirt stockers.

NExt session went out on the Hoosier DOT rains and went a little slower than the dirt stockers... go figure! (Avg. lap was aoubt .2 seconds slower... not to much in the rain)

Stephen

[BobsAuto]

Having both raced wheel to wheel and autocrossed in the rain, I can tell you one thing. The years I spent travelling from So. MA to northern NH in ice, rain, sleet, and snow and also practicing car control in empty parking lots for such travel as a young teen, I can tell you, I wished I had ice racing experience to add to that learning of car control. Racing in the rain is, yes, an entirely new ball game when it comes to racing, but I must agree with both R & S.....track time, be in on ice, rain, or even a slushy parking lot, teaches you much. I saw what those two learned in the rain at LRP. I can attest to the fact that they used that rainy test day to learn anything and everything they could about dry lines, wet lines, and tires. I recall going out for a practice session in the 88 NARRC runoffs in my sport 2000 on slicks just to see what the car would do. It was the most valuable 5 laps I ever took in my short racing career. I learned a ton.

[joeg]

eh...real ice racing is a combinmation of dirt tracking and "rubbin" (or worse)--it is not wet asphalt racing.

I am talking Menards or screwed tires with a big pack of equal cars.

Like I said, it is a ton of fun (as is Pro Rally--did that for many years too) but not very useful as a teaching aid for road racing in the wet.