IT Festival at MO

[Edwin Ho]

Typically it is your fast lap from Saturday afternoons race. Sunday mornings race serves as a qualifier for Sunday afternoon. Each race (individual) has to have a qualifier per the Sanction rules. If this is operating under two sanctions for the two races that is.
[/b]

Just as another point of information. At Waterford Hills, we run four sessions per group per weekend. On Sat, there is a qualifying session and a race. Race finishing position sets the grid for Sun morning race. Fastest lap from Sat & Sun races sets the grid for the Feature. Oh yeah, also throw in two extra groups on Sat for open- and closed-wheel co-driver races (share a car or swap a car). All that, and we can only run from 10am - 6pm. Talk about a busy schedule.

I will likely be running the National at Grattan, but if I were going to participate, I would prefer to have multiple chances to qualify for the "main" race on Sun. Fast lap from Sat OR Sun race? I'd hate to be taken out or break on the first lap (no, that never happens :P ) of the Sun morning race and then have to start at the back for the finale.

Ed.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Race finishing position sets the grid for Sun morning race. Fastest lap from Sat & Sun races sets the grid for the Feature.
Ed. [/b]

Ed, if this is the case, something is happening. Each sanctioned race HAS to have a qualifier. It can be a qualifying race or a traditional qualifying session. In the scenario you describe above, the Sunday morning race is not really a series 'race' but a qualifier you shouldn't get traditional points for - all assuming you are trying to operate under two sanction numbers.

Seems strange but each race must have a distinct qualifier attached to it in order to qualify as a complete sanctioned race IIRC.

[greendot]

Ed, if this is the case, something is happening. Each sanctioned race HAS to have a qualifier. It can be a qualifying race or a traditional qualifying session. In the scenario you describe above, the Sunday morning race is not really a series 'race' but a qualifier you shouldn't get traditional points for - all assuming you are trying to operate under two sanction numbers.

Seems strange but each race must have a distinct qualifier attached to it in order to qualify as a complete sanctioned race IIRC.
[/b]

First, these are not SCCA sanctioned races so WHRRI is not subject to those constraints.

Second, how does using the best of either the Saturday or Sunday morning race times count for qualifying for the Sunday afternoon race differ from the Runoffs qualifying format?

[Andy Bettencourt]

First, these are not SCCA sanctioned races so WHRRI is not subject to those constraints.[/b]

I didn't get that from the post. Obviously we are talking about SCCA stuff here.

Second, how does using the best of either the Saturday or Sunday morning race times count for qualifying for the Sunday afternoon race differ from the Runoffs qualifying format? [/b]

The SCCA Runoffs? There are multiple qualifying sessions for ONE race. One sanction, one race. You can have as many qualifiers as you want for one race/sanction.

[greendot]

Let's assume that you are not saying that only SCCA has an idea how to do things.

It is still not clear to me how/why a Saturday race from which the times are used as Sunday morning qualifying and a Sunday morning race from which times are used as Sunday afternoon qualifying is OK, but to use both the Saturday and Sunday morning races to qualify for Sunday afternoon race is not OK.

Or, maybe I missed your point altogether and using a race as a qualifying session is not acceptable at all? No, you did say "Each sanctioned race HAS to have a qualifier. It can be a qualifying race or a traditional qualifying session."

So if we were talking of an SCCA series, are you saying that a qualifying race cannot also be a series race? I guess that makes sense to somebody smarter than I am. <_<

Bruce Wentzel

[Andy Bettencourt]

Well, we all know that all rules may not make sense...

A &#39;race&#39; can&#39;t be a QUALIFIER and a RACE at the same time.

I missed where anyone said that Sat and Sun &#39;races&#39; can be a qualifier for a Sunday afternoon race. At the Runoffs, it&#39;s all qualifying until the one race.

Again, you can have a qualifying &#39;race&#39; to set the grid for the ACTUAL SANCTIONED RACE.

Let me give you this example in SCCA-world:
You are going to have a QUALIFYING race and then an actual RACE. You set the grid by season-to date points, random draw - whatever. Then you &#39;race&#39;. Finishing positions determine the grid for the RACE. This is only ONE RACE in the eyes of the SCCA. You have to have one qualifier tied to each race - PER SANCTION NUMBER.

Having said all that, I believe each series can assign double, triple - whatever amount of points they want to your weekend - but when you go to fill in your membership renewal - you can only put down that one sanction number - because it was only one SCCA sanctioned RACE...

Head is spinning....

[greendot]

That&#39;s me on the left.

Ok, that&#39;s more clearer.

Nevertheless, I like Ed&#39;s suggestion but will be there to race however the organizers do IT.

[xr4racer]

I would like to offer a different perspesctive. First, I am all for this IT Festival concept as I am an IT driver. But, I do not see how this is going to fly because for many years there has been 4 regionals at Mid Ohio and this year there is not a Brat Bash ran by Fort Wayne on the schedule. It appears they have licked there wounds from poor Mid Ohio turnouts and moved it to Gingerman. Someone correct me if this not true. So now we are down to 3 weekends at Mid Ohio for regionals plus the Friday date with the National in June. I can not see how Cincy is going to "lock out" GT&#39;s, Production, Sports Racers and open wheel cars and the TCC from the weekend which will only leave them 2 weekends at Mid Ohio.
I also cannot see how there will be a big enough turnout for the Festival when there are regionals the same weekend at Summit Point, Beaverun, and Lime Rock PLUS a National at Grattan. Someone enlighten me on how there will be a big turnout to pay the large Mid Ohio bill. Many drivers will say they will come but when it comes down too i9t they will race the regional that is closer to home especially when they want to win a championship, (NARRC, MARRS etc.)

Matt
Great Lakes #7 ITS RX-7

[Andy Bettencourt]

Rome wasn&#39;t built in a day. Neither was the ARRC.

TCC is on the list IIRC.

[Dave Burchfield]

Matt,

Since I have been campaigning for this type event for over a year now, let me give it a try.

In looking at the number of entries from GT, Prod, SS, and open wheel, which Todd has at his disposal, it is apparent that those entries are not participating in Regional events to the level as the IT, SM, and SRF classes. The thought was that if an event that focused on those classes were offered, the number of entrants would equal or surpass the normal numbers from past at Mid Ohio. We all are aware that the regions that race at MO are going to have to examine with care how they do business there in order to meet the rising costs of the track. With the Runoffs not being there any longer, many of the national drivers are now electing to concentrate their efforts in the direction of the Runoffs.

I have understood that Ft Wayne did not chose to move to Gingerman. I don&#39;t know this to be fact, but it is a possibility. We may have to wait for someone with solid information to weigh in on this one.

TCC has said that this event will be on their calendar. I have not seen it in print yet, but as is the norm, they would run with ITE.

You are correct that there are other events close to some who might enter, but we know what to expect in offering a "traditional" double regional at Mid Ohio. I guess the big question to answer is which will be a more successful event for competitors and the sponsoring region. I think only time will tell, and I applaud the region for making a bold step toward offering something unique. You can be assured that I will be doing whatever I may to help make this event a success.

I look forward to seeing you there, and yes, there will be a new engine in my company.

[xr4racer]

Dave,
Thanks for the response, I am glad to hear the TCC will be included, they have a much better turnout when they are listed as a class not bunched in with ITE although they run together. As I have said in an earlier post before the thread blew up, Margarita Motorsports will have 7 or 8 cars entered I am sure. Glad to hear of the progress being made towards this event. Good Luck in your efforts.

Matt

[Dave Burchfield]

Matt,

There will be a beverage waiting for you!

[TAC]

Hi everyone,

The classes we are inviting are ITA , IT7, ITB, ITC, ITE ,TCC, ITR, ITS, SM and SRF. We hope to get a good turn out from IT7 and TCC so we can run them as seperate classes.


Todd

[H5Civic]

Hi everyone,

The classes we are inviting are ITA , IT7, ITB, ITC, ITE ,TCC, ITR, ITS, SM and SRF. We hope to get a good turn out from IT7 and TCC so we can run them as seperate classes.


Todd
[/b]

Todd,

With the above being said, how many run groups are you expecting to use for this event? At a quick glance I see that six (6) is a fairly logical number of run groups made up of traditional group pairings from the ARRC the last few years (in no cronological order):

Group 1: ITA & IT7
Group 2: ITB & ITC
Group 3: ITE & TCC
Group 4: ITR & ITS
Group 5: SM
Group 6: SRF

Just curious, as I&#39;m sure others are.

Regards,

Sam

[TAC]

Sam,

The grand scheme is to align closely in a few years ( Hopfully for the 25th anniversary of I.T.) with the ARRC. This means class alignment as well as rules plus more days. The big problem is we are trying something new and have two days to do what ARRC is now doing in four. So based on average I.T. attendance at Mid-O the last few years plus the fact that there are many other events this weekend, Plus the unknown turnout of IT7 and the new ITR class, we are looking at 5 groups.

Group 1 ITA, IT7, ITS

Group 2 ITB, ITC

Group 3 ITE, ITR, TCC

Group 4 SM

Group 5 SRF

Todd

[greendot]

Well, in my dreams I was hoping IT7 and ITS would be separated and I might run both. This would make it difficult. :026:

will be there to race however the organizers do IT.
[/b]

[R2 Racing]

I&#39;ll go ahead and make my first plea here:

Please do not put ITA and ITS together at Mid Ohio. They run practically the exact same lap times but in vastly different ways. At our typical regionals (assuming ITS & ITA were classed together that weekend), it&#39;s not uncommon to see the top five ITA cars and the top five ITS cars all running in one huge, ten car jumbled mess. Anytime those two classes are put together at Mid Ohio, it really seems to ruin both of their races. Not to mention those two classes will be your two biggest in entries (except maybe SM). It could maybe be done with a split start, but I know that opens a whole other can of worms.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I have to agree. Why not start out more similar to the ARRC right off the bat?

ITA, IT7
TCC, ITR, ITS, ITE
ITB, ITC
SM
SRF

Or if I were God for a day, this is what I would do:

ITA, ITC. IT7
ITR, ITS, ITB
TCC, ITE
SM
SRF

or

ITA, ITC, IT7
ITS, ITB
TCC, ITE, ITR
SM
SRF

[dominojd]

Or if I were God for a day, this is what I would do:

[/b]

Come on Andy this isn&#39;t LRP.

[TAC]

Andy, good ideas. The point is to make this a safe event, the thought is to run classes of similar speed. ITS moving in with the ITE, TCC and ITR has merit. IT7 is the big unknown . IT7 was absorbed into ITA a couple of years ago in this part of the country.

Todd