Lap Timers

[Sandro]

I am looking into getting an in car timer such as a Hot Lap and had a few questions.

I was talking to someone and they said dont waste your time they dont work. My question is what are your guys experiences with them? Personally to me they seem like they should work if set up properly.

My main concern is when aligned correctly do they take an accurate time measurement, or would I be better off bringing my grandma and a stop watch?

It seems the majority of people use the Hot Lap timer, but I also came across XTRacing timer http://www.cc-2000.com/xtracing/en/

I like that with the XT Timer you can connect it to a computer and see all your times together. Has anyone had any experiece with one of these?

Any pros and cons of either would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Campbell]

I tried to go the timer route but it didn't work for me. With 15 or 18 transmitters set up on the front straight I was getting multiple hits on my receiver and could never get a correct lap time - didn't matter the transmitters weren't for my kind of timing system. good luck

[dickita15]

I finally broke down and bought one this year. The programming in them is set up so that the do not recognize any signal closer than 5 seconds from another signal. The norm is that all transmitters are set up together so the in car only sees the first one in line. My first weekend I set up my tripod and went out. I was really annoyed as there was somebody transmitting around turn 3, so I would get 32 seconds there and then 50 seconds at pit in. it is a real pain trying to do math while driving.
I ran another 4 weekends and this never happened again. I am not the most consistent driver and it takes me a few laps to get up to speed and the immediate feedback helped with both these problems. By the way I never set up my own tripod the rest of the year. There was always a signal.

[Joe Harlan]

http://www.aimsports.com/products/tg/index.html



This is the one I use and it works awesome at every track we have used it. The key is in seting it up to have a dely long enough to only read 1 beacon. I bought a couple of the units that have their own batteries so I can move them between my racecars and shifter karts.

[gran racing]

This is the one I use. It was developed from the guy who invented Hot Lap timers. It's less common in the states (is that good or bad - I actually think good since you don't have to compete for beacons). I've been using my T100 for ~ 4 years and have not complaints about it.

Lap timer

I will say that I now use the lap timer more to count the number of laps I am into the race, and stopped using it during qualifying. Becareful using times if you're not using a data acq. system or using multiple beacons - it can hinder you!

[IPRESS]

I sold an Intercomp Timer that is much like the the Hot Lap. I then bought the AIM timer like the one above. GREAT tool. Big display for us experienced folks who use reader glasses. (No comments from the peanut gallery.... you will all have an opportunity to participate in getting old!)
No really, the AIM unit is great, well worth the price.

[Eric Parham]

Any thoughts on the ones that work through the AMB transponder? I thought they were initially overpriced (monopoly ?), but that might have changed by now. They must rely on the track's timing loop being both present and active. Anyone know if the track timing loops are normally operational/active on open practice days?

[JimLill]

Any thoughts on the ones that work through the AMB transponder? I thought they were initially overpriced (monopoly ?), but that might have changed by now. They must rely on the track's timing loop being both present and active. Anyone know if the track timing loops are normally operational/active on open practice days?
[/b]

The AMB T&S system needs to be up and running and more importantly the BlindApex Transmiiter needs to be online and working (properly).

[lateapex911]

If you haven't bought the tach and guages for your car, consider getting one of the less expensive data aq packages that include a display, like the AIM MyChron system.

The system usually includeds a configurable display, and data aquisition functions and of course, lap timing. The display can show you revs, speed, lap time (often predictive as well), as well as a number of other items, ioil press, water temp, etc, and has settable shift lights, and alarms. I priced out a tach, and lap timer and to get good quality stuff, with programmable shift lights, and big displays was in the $700 range. Add guages, and such, and you're close to getting the data aspect for just a few hundred.

So, you kill 3 birds with one stone, and often for not a lot of extra money.

Here's a link...and the price for this is under a thou...they start with the same displey for under 650.

http://www.aimsports.com/products/m3-xglog/index.html

Now, if you've decided it's JUST a lap timer you need, look for features like adjustable blanking windows. Sometimes the preset amount, as mentioned above, is insufficient. The better units can be adjusted, or can run multiple beacons for segment timing. Also, get a good easy to read display. The AIM unit pictured is well regarded. I would hesitate about the AMB solution...it's a crapshoot to count on the tracks for test days.

Accuracy?

Hmm...my AIM MXL system shows my best time at Road Atlanta recently as .07 second faster then the track timing system. The AIM had me at a X:XX.317 vs the tracks X:XX.380. That's probably close enough for most of us.

[Greg Amy]

Jake's right: save your pennies for data aquisition. My GPS-based data aq is also within thousandths of the official times, I get sector-by-sector returns rather than just whole laps, plus I have a digital record of what I actually DID that lap to get that time, rather than trying to remember it.

Just like "R" tires were in the late 80's, and in-car video and super-hot dampers were in the 90's, data aquisition is now the club racers' unfair advantage in the aughts. It's gotten to the point now where you've GOT to have it to be competitive. Even better, compared to the price of consumables like tires and shocks, your data aquisition system never wears out... - GA

[Joe Harlan]

Jake's right: save your pennies for data aquisition. My GPS-based data aq is also within thousandths of the official times, I get sector-by-sector returns rather than just whole laps, plus I have a digital record of what I actually DID that lap to get that time, rather than trying to remember it.

Just like "R" tires were in the late 80's, and in-car video and super-hot dampers were in the 90's, data aquisition is now the club racers' unfair advantage in the aughts. It's gotten to the point now where you've GOT to have it to be competitive. Even better, compared to the price of consumables like tires and shocks, your data aquisition system never wears out... - GA
[/b]

Greg I agree on full data system but I will say this. for some of us a data system is just not doable. I would highly recommend a dash type timer as a tool for instant feedback. Most of us can't remember what lap felt the best or who was around us during the session. The instant number allows our brains to recognize a good lap and maybe remember how we pulled it off. Timers and video cameras can be some of the best data you can get for the money.

[Greg Amy]

Joe, data aq is just not that expensive any more. A Race Technology DL-1 is listed at GBP499 (slightly less than US$1000 at today's rates); a set of new Hoosiers costs ~$750 or more.

I *guarantee* you that the DL-1 will produce a larger decrease in lap times than the Hoosiers will, and the DL-1 doesn't cycle out after 8-10 sessions...! Using $$/seconds of lap time, especially given that the depreciation cycle of the DL-1 is SIGNIFICANTLY less than tires, it's one hell of a value...

Or you can spend ~$250 for a lap timer and get nothing more than what you get for free from T&S.

http://fasttechlimited.com/index.htm

[gran racing]

Greg,
One of the things (besides $$) thats holding me back from getting a data acq system is not knowing what to do with the information and how to use it to make me faster.

[Greg Amy]

One of the things (besides $$) thats holding me back from getting a data acq system is not knowing what to do with the information and how to use it to make me faster.[/b]

Well, that's where you need to enlist the services of an intelligent individual that has engineering, computer, driving/racing, and vehicle dynamics/setup experience and skillsets to teach you how to use it.

Know anyone like that...?



'Course, until buy a data aq unit, you never will have those skillsets...

[erlrich]

Haven't used either, but I have to agree with Greg on this one. As a driver it's nice to know WHEN I've turned a fast lap, but it's much, much more useful to know WHY I turned a fast lap, i.e. where did I pick up those few tenths versus an average lap.

For me, since I'm still pouring (ok, trickling) $$$$ into the mechanical aspects of making the car faster, the next best thing is a decent video camera. No, you won't get the instant feedback you would get with an in-car timing system, but what you do get is the ability to go back and review that fast lap over and over again. I am almost always able to get within a tenth of T&S on lap timing from the video, but what I'm also able to do is pick various "waypoints" around the track and check my sector times. Of course, I would have to think the ultimate package would be a data logger and video cam together.

[tnord]

as someone who has a $250 (one of those XT units) lap timer, and $200 in autometer guages, i have to agree with Greg. i've helped install a budget AIM unit in a friend's car, and seen the potential it has in the right hands. i kinda wished i woulda saved my money and got a DA.

BUT....

at the time i just didn't have 1k to plop down all at once. here's where i think my laptimer was useful; i race at most 1x per month, so when i hop back in the car for qualifying, i don't have the 'feel' of the limit of the car right away. when my laptimer pops up telling me i'm a couple seconds off where i need to be, and i'm driving the same line, i know i just need to push harder. that instant feedback that a T&S sheet doesn't provide has been usefull for me.

also, if you're not going with the DA, i'd suggest not getting the AMB laptimer, as it's completely useless on any test day. test day's or just open lapping days with a mazda club or whatever are generally VERY usefull as you get more track time then you know what to do with, and get to try lots of different stuff. it is in these situations where you REALLY want to have some sort of laptimer.

[lateapex911]

.

also, if you're not going with the DA, i'd suggest not getting the AIM laptimer, as it's completely useless on any test day. test day's or just open lapping days with a mazda club or whatever are generally VERY usefull as you get more track time then you know what to do with, and get to try lots of different stuff. it is in these situations where you REALLY want to have some sort of laptimer. [/b]

Huh?? The AIM unit works ALL the time...as long as YOU set it up and have batteries. Were you referring to the AMB system? Which is On or OFF at the whim of the track?

[Bildon]

>> what are your guys experiences with them?

Pain in the arse
Not aimed properly, or they get left at the track or you dont have time to get it set up before your session etc, etc. I had a HotLap once and used it sucessfully maybe twice.

With my GPS based timer, I get everylap, every time, within .001 of the AMB timing system used by the tracks.

I have a DL1 ($900) but Traqmate makes on for less than $700. If you ask Santa real nice he can get it to you for about $650 I'm told. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were not GPS lap timers without other data acq. features already out there for $300-400...somewhere.

[Joe Harlan]

OK so since this has become a advertisement for DL1 I have to ask. How do you get the data from this unit?

[Greg Amy]

CF (compact flash) card.