Scary crash at Sebring Test Day

[Carlos G]

That was a big moment for both drivers, thank God Rob and Phil are both physically ok.
Just wanted to emphasize that mirrors are our best friend. Use them. Always. Going down the straight, just before turn in at every turn, and on exit. Always be aware of whats behind you and around you. Situational awareness. That should be taught at every drivers school, both SCCA and the Skippy types.
Since I wasn't standing there watching, I have no clue as to what actually happened there at T- 14, but I can imagine Rob did not see the Jag attempting a pass into the apex or he would not have turned in for the apex at this left hand kink.
If you have raced Sebring you know these kinks offer passing opportunities on both entry and exit. ITS cars routinely pass there as you are going just over 100 MPH with slower ITC, ITB and SM folks going about 80 MPH. You are flat from the entry of Tower turn until just past the grass patch braking point at T 15. When coming up on slower traffic into the left kink at T- 14, you hope and pray that the car in front has looked in their mirror and holds their line. Their present line. As in, keeping your present wide line with your entry so as to allow a safe inside pass or keeping tight with your drift out on exit so as to allow a safe outside pass. If you are driving a ITS car, you will / must pass slower cars there. If you are driving slower cars, you will be passed there. Test day, practice, qual or race.
Please look at your mirrors before you turn in at both kinks and hold your existing line if you see someone coming. Same goes for T-17 and T-1.
In summary, as I now drive one of the "slower cars", I have learned to use my mirrors. Always. Everywhere on track. Don't want a ITS BMW or RX7 punting me off.
Maybe this explains what happened at the Turkey Trot test day.
Good safe racing to all,
Carlos Gutierrez

[sscmini]

Carlos,

That was the point I was trying to make on here. I know that the ITS guys are most times the fastest cars on track and may not always have to watch their mirrors because they are not use to being passed as much. I also know as a car that raced with ITS guys before, most of you would have made the same move on me in a test day if I would have been there and you had the horsepower too.

I only posted on this forum because it seemed unfair to me that Phil not have a voice and that his driving ability would be questioned. I can let any of you who dont know Phil is not a GT1 drive that points and shoots.

Greg,
I think your are not hearing reason. I agree to hold you line, but you cant when there has been a car that is in that same space. I have always held my line... but moved or not turned in when someone else is there. My only point is if Rob would have checked his mirrors then we would not be talking about this. And I know that if Phil would have waited to pass we would not be talking as well.
My last question for you is on a test day, Have you every passed anyone in any other place than on a straight?

Jill

[zracre]

My last question for you is on a test day, Have you every passed anyone in any other place than on a straight?

Jill
[/quote]

not when it is a high risk pass with tremendous closing speeds. I can see a wreck like this happening in a race when you need to stay ahead of your competition...but test day laps dont win trophies. We should just let this rest. It may have been avoided if either party took action to avoid impact. The point is the GT1 car hit the RX7 while passing him. It is unfortunate that so much was lost so lets stop pointing fingers and try to learn from mistakes and move on!

[latebrake]

Please stay on line. it you run the line i know where you are going to be at any given time and place on track. if you dont you are a lose cannon and no one knows where you may be.
I bet this is a case of two good drivers with fast cars and just made a mistake. I wonder if any one here has ever ran 10 laps anywhere mistake free. sooner or later its going to be the wrong place to make one. fault is all drivers that day at that corner. SCCA will put production cars on track with GT1 cars on test days and theres a real size difference. i wonder if a lotus 7 can even be seen from most GT1 cars just off the side left or right.

[CaptainWho]

i wonder if a lotus 7 can even be seen from most GT1 cars just off the side left or right. [/b]

That's my biggest fear during CCPS races ... ITS, ITA, ITB, ITC, SM, and ... wait for it ... !SRF! Holy cow, I sometimes have a hard time seeing SRFs from the IT7 car when there's nothing between us ... numerous times I've had them pop out from behind the IT car behind me and we almost collide because even though I'm watching my mirrors, he's in-freaking-visible when he's behind another tin top.

[Goodrad]

Bottomline it's The overtaking cars responsability to get by cleanly, if he had done that on a sanctioned weekend he probably would have been protested and given a severe penalty.

[Butch Kummer]

SCCA will put production cars on track with GT1 cars on test days and theres a real size difference. i wonder if a lotus 7 can even be seen from most GT1 cars just off the side left or right.
[/b]

I've been silent on this until now, mainly because I wasn't there and I've never driven the 12-Hour course at Sebring. The above statement is incorrect, however. The test day is run by the track, not SCCA, and they are the ones that decide the mix of cars on the track.

I will use what influence I have with Road Atlanta to add another group for the ARRC test day in 2007. We had SPO (GT-1) cars out there with Miatas and about sixty cars on the track. It may require the sessions to be cut to 20 minutes to fit everyone in, but that time will be better spent if you're not looking out for traffic at EVERY corner.

You want something scary? In SOPAC they run HP with GT-1 because they have such small car counts.

Butch Kummer

[StephenB]

The point is the GT1 car hit the RX7 while passing him. It is unfortunate that so much was lost so lets stop pointing fingers and try to learn from mistakes and move on!
[/b]

I think this comment is why she posted. and there is always 2 sides to every story.

From the GT1 drivers perspective it seems as though The RX7 actually hit the GT1 car as it came down and hit the Jag in the side.

Again I wasn't a witness but I don't think we should be picking on or tearing apart the GT driver. I hate to go against the grain here but it just doesn't seem fair to me. To me this seems as though it is an accident with no blame that could have been avoided by different decisions by both drivers. I also do not think a protest would have held up... It's also up to the car being passed to leave racing room.

[JeffYoung]

Accidents happen on track. I understand that. But any accident on a test day is highly suspect. It's not racing. Relax.

Here, pretty clear to me that on a TEST day the GT1 car had the clearest path to accident avoidance by simplying waiting a few hundred yards to pass in a safer spot. It really seems that simple to me.

[zracre]

[quote]
It may have been avoided if either party took action to avoid impact. The point is the GT1 car hit the RX7 while passing him.

here is the point...

[rob22]

Incidents like this happen in a flash, and they can be avoided, but are sometimes difficult to avoid.
I don't think we know that the Jag actually hit the RX7. If Phil saw an opening drove it in there and then Rob comes down because he never saw the Jag, I don't think that qualifies as the Jag hitting the RX7. More like Phil put them in a tight spot and Rob wasn't as aware as he might have been, and the track management used horrible judgement for putting them on the track at the same time.

I can guarantee you that Phil didn't think he was making a risky pass that may lead to replacing a 300K Jag.

[Andy Bettencourt]

More like Phil put them in a tight spot and Rob wasn't as aware as he might have been, and the track management used horrible judgement for putting them on the track at the same time.
[/b]

+1

[Chris Wire]

Can you please tell me how the GT1 car hit the ITS car at 140 mph in the rear???? If that happened then why is the rear of the car the only thing left of the ITS car??? Can you also tell me where the tire marks on the side of the ITS came from??? Maybe they are from where the ITS car came down on the GT1 car as they are entering the apex for turn 14???[/b]

I'll make these two points and then I'm out. I didn't witness the incident but I did spend a bit of time going over the RX7 later on, as evidenced by my fat you-know-what in some of the pictures.

POINT 1 - Based on the way the rear suspension was pushed forward and up into the wheelhouse of Rob's car, it's pretty evident that the Jag ran into the back corner of the RX7 (in case the hood wasn't enough to convince you). As far as the tire marks that were mentioned, one should note that the tire mark is very distinct and almost perfectly round. Also, there is very little sheet metal damage to the door. That indicates to me that the cars were traveling at the same speed when Phil's tire came into contact with Rob's door, and that, had it been the initial impact, the damage to the door would have been much greater. My guess is that the tire marks are from a secondary impact after the cars came together and exited the track to driver's right. The left rear damage on the Mazda (both suspension and body), and the hood jammed up under the taillamp, indicate the initial impact. The tire marks likely occured during a subsequent impact after the Jag had slowed to match the speed of the Mazda. That tire mark on Rob's door could not have been made as it is if it happened under a large speed differential.

I find it very hard to believe you could not hear or see Phil coming at this point on the track.
[/b]

POINT 2 - As someone who raced with the 'big boys' for 5 years, I can speak from first hand knowledge. Yes, a rotary is very loud in the car. Yes, a GT1 car is very loud outside the car. However, the sound of a GT1 car does not PRECEDE the car itself. A GT1 car is much louder once it has passed you than when it's approaching.

When I raced with the GT boys I was always checking my mirrors as the closing rates are phenomenal (AS car = heavy, DOT tires vs. GT car = lighter, faster, slicks). But if I missed seeing them in my mirror, it was too late; you don't hear the sound until they are too close for you to do anything about it. Luckily, in my 5 years my incidence level was zero.