Scary crash at Sebring Test Day

[Chris Wire]

I saw Rob shortly after these photos were taken and he seemed to have command of all his faculties. Understandably he mentioned he was a bit sore.

To underscore Marc's point, the cage did it's job. The forward downtube did bend as Kirk mentioned, but the weld held up perfectly. More to Kirk's point, I had the same thoughts as I was inspecting the damage, but after looking at my own car last night, it may be more difficult to add after-the-fact as opposed to being incorporated into an original design.

The halos on the RX7s are very short, which extends the length of the downtube and closes up the angle. The steeply raked windshields factor into this also, as well as the deep dashboard. The downside to adding a bar as Kirk showed is that it puts it in very close proximity to the driver's head, arms, etc. This may be one of those "lesser of the two evils" things however.

I personally don't know if Rob is a religious man, but it's plain to me that God was looking out for him that day.

[Richy Gonzalez]

"...it's plain to me that God was looking out for him that day"

No doubt about that. I'm glad Rob's okay!

[Mike Guenther]

I just spoke with Rob (Wed. morning). He said that he is still just a little bit sore, but otherwise he is back to normal. He told me about flying over the fence, landing on the right front corner, tumbling and skidding along on the roof. It is incredable that the car wasn't a completely twisted mess. It surely would have been had it been a street car without the roll cage. Rob said that he was told that the Jag's data acquisition system showed it was traveling 140 mph when it hit him entering turn 14 at the apex.

Hollywood mentioned mentioned that the roll cage was built at ISC Racing in Winter Haven. I don't know if Mike V actually had a hand in building it or if the credit should go to Chuck who does a lot of the welding and cage building at ISC. To fly over cement barriers and clear a chain link catch fence and land upside down and the top hoop has only the small deflection the pictures show, is a testament to how a good cage can save a life that a street car accident without a cage would have likely resulted. Chuck "You Da Man". Good work.

[sscmini]

Can you please tell me how the GT1 car hit the ITS car at 140 mph in the rear???? If that happened then why is the rear of the car the only thing left of the ITS car??? Can you also tell me where the tire marks on the side of the ITS came from??? Maybe they are from where the ITS car came down on the GT1 car as they are entering the apex for turn 14??? I do have a photo of the tire marks on the right side of Phil's car from the ITS car or you can see the tire mark on the left side of the ITS car on the photos already posted. I think you will see Phil was in front of the ITS car by a half a car length when the ITS car came down and hit Phil. This immediatley sent Phil to the right and the concrete wall. As far as Phil checking in on the other driver. He did see him out walking around at the crash scene before leaving for the hospital. I also know for a fact that the ITS guy did not come by to check on Phil's well being.

It was a very horrible crash to see after the fact on the track as I drove by on track. I am also one of the slower cars on the track at a test day. You should know as a slower car you are not out there to win a race in your head, and that you have to watch your mirror at all times, just as the faster cars have to watch out for the slower cars in front of them. While I say this. I find it very hard to believe you could not hear or see Phil coming at this point on the track.

[Greg Amy]

And your identity is...?

I have no direct knowledge on this particular crash, but I can tell you - from DIRECT experience - that it is extremely difficult to see a car bearing down on you with a 50+ MPH difference. You look up, you see nothing, you turn into a corner, and WHAM! there goes a GT-1 car by you. PArk on the shoulder of an interstate some time to get a relative effect of that kind of speed. Now try merging directly into the traffic without getting punted.

At this year's pre-ARRC test day we had the same problem, and I myself nearly got into it with a half-dozen cars or more. Take a peek: nothing there. Turn into a corner: HOLY CRAP! where did that big V-8 car come from??

Then again, who's got the ultimate responsibility for the safe pass...?

I'd have a lot more respect for your opinion if 1) you didn't sign up just now and make that your first post, and 2) you identified yourself outside of an anonymous sign-in name. Until then, I'm going to assume you're just here to cause trouble... - GA

[sscmini]

I am Jill Urso and I thought that would be clear as I am Phil's daughter and run a mini. I do have a screen name from over 5 years ago, just dont know it from not running ITA anymore. I was told that there was talk on the board of the wreck and wanted to put my 2 cents in since I was on the track when the wreck occured. I have always done test days and for a long time was the one of slowest ep or fp cars (Acura Integra) on track so I can speak about being over taken by faster cars. When you do a test day with faster cars you should watch your mirrors more than normal....

Please take a look at the tire marks on Phil's Car at Simmsmotorsports.com under the photo section.

[Greg Amy]

Thank you for identifying yourself, Jill.

Again, I WAS NOT THERE, but I know the track. I also know that T14 ("Bishop Bend") is a kink along one of the longest straights. That means there's some serious speed along it, full acceleration coming out of Tower Turn. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand that there would be a TON of speed differential through there between a full-boat, pro-built Rocketsports GT-1 car and a club racing Improved Touring S car. I know, I've been there. Given the speed differential and the fact there was a collision, unless the GT-1 car was tootling around in third gear, it's easy to assume that the GT-1 car tried to stuff in a high-speed pass in a tight area on a car running probably 50-60 mph slower than him. Maybe he assumed the slower car saw him; maybe he thought he could make the pass before the ITS car turned in regardless if the guy didn't see him. Don't know, you can ask him.

But it doesn't matter. Given the information presented in this forum, it is my OPINION that this was an extremely poor place to attempt a pass on a significantly slower car, ESPECIALLY on a test day. I don't care if the passing car had made it alongside the slower car by the apex; with a speed differential as great as that we're talking MILLISECONDS of difference between completely behind and completely in front. I'm betting the ITS car never saw him coming.

Fortunately, no one was seriously injured...

I hope that a lot of folks learned something from this:

- It's a test day, and you're on the track with much faster cars. Keep your head on a swivel 'cause you never know what's coming up on you and where they may try to pass;
- It's a test day, and you're on the track with significantly slower cars. Don't expect that everyone's heads are on a swivel trying to stay out of your way just 'cause you're faster;
- It's a test day, and we really should not be putting cars with such disparate speeds on the ttrack at the same time...

[Knestis]

... Maybe they are from where the ITS car came down on the GT1 car as they are entering the apex for turn 14??? ... I think you will see Phil was in front of the ITS car by a half a car length when the ITS car came down and hit Phil. ...[/b]

Setting aside any possiblity of bias, we are NOT talking about a racing pass under green between two cars in the same class - so the classic "half a length" defense is just not going to cut it.

What this means, even accepting that all of your contentions are accurate, is that a car with VASTLY superior braking, cornering, and acceleration attempted to pass a much slower car between the passee's turn in point and the apex, on what sounds like a very fast corner. During a test day.

I agree that even with your additional evidence, this was an ill-advised pass attempt.

K

[Bruce Shafer]

Can you please tell me how the GT1 car hit the ITS car at 140 mph in the rear???? If that happened then why is the rear of the car the only thing left of the ITS car??? Can you also tell me where the tire marks on the side of the ITS came from??? Maybe they are from where the ITS car came down on the GT1 car as they are entering the apex for turn 14??? [/b]

OK, then please explain the chunk of Rocketsports hood lodged in the back of Robs car?

[Mike Spencer]

Can you please tell me how the GT1 car hit the ITS car at 140 mph in the rear???? If that happened then why is the rear of the car the only thing left of the ITS car??? Can you also tell me where the tire marks on the side of the ITS came from??? <snip> [/b]

OK, first off;

1) I wasn&#39;t there

2) I&#39;ve never even driven the track

However, I share Jill&#39;s confusion with regard to how good the back of the S car looks. I&#39;m only thinking out loud and applying some basic physics here so feel free to shoot my theory full of holes.

Having said that, in order to launch a car that weighs over a ton over that fence you have to hit it from below, not from behind. We&#39;re talking a fly ball here, not a line drive. I suspect that if Rob was turning in he may have been trailbraking as well. That would jack the left rear of the car up somewhat. Let&#39;s further assume that Phil knew the impact was imminent. Good chance he was on the brakes HARD! That drops the front of the Jag down. Not a whole lot, but noticably. You now have a large fast-moving wedge being driven underneath the left rear of a car that is (relatively) high off the ground.

That wouldn&#39;t explain the tire mark on the driver&#39;s side, but it would get the RX-7 off the ground with minimal rear-end damage.

Like everyone else I am extremely happy that all parties involved seem to be alright. I&#39;m also hoping that there is something each of us can learn from this and use the next time we strap in.

I have been on track with GT-1 cars (I drive an IT-7) and I completely agree that you look and there&#39;s nothing there... you look again and he&#39;s right on top of you. Also, a friend was driving my car at a test day at VIR a couple of years ago and was on track with a Daytona Prototype. I wouldn&#39;t wish that on my worst enemy!

I wish I had a better answer, but we take risks every time we get in the car. Professionals driving LMP-1 cars occasionally misjudge a pass when they&#39;re going around GT-2 cars at Le Mans and bad things happen.

Again, thank God everyone&#39;s OK!

[handfulz28]

You should know as a slower car[/b]

What kind of crap is that? As a "slower car" all you should have to do is drive the line.

While I say this. I find it very hard to believe you could not hear or see Phil coming at this point on the track.[/b]

Jill, you&#39;ve been on track plenty of times...do you not remember how loud a rotary is? I can&#39;t hear MY OWN car when I&#39;m near a rotary, let alone a muffled GT1.

Too bad Jill and/or her father probably won&#39;t come back to read this. Race day, test day, practice, qualifying, on the street...it&#39;s the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PASSING DRIVER to ensure a clean pass. If there&#39;s contact, it defaults to the passing driver to step up and apologize.

Was there no in-car footage from either car? Or is too incriminating to share? For such an accomplished driver, it sounds like a bonehead move and not being man enough to say "sorry pal, my mistake".

Good luck, have fun,
Michael

[sscmini]

First off this was a very unfortunate incident and thankfully both drivers walked away, that is the most important thing to remember. with that said. phil remembers rob going out wide entering the corner, what he would consider "off line". when phil saw that he went for the pass, as they got to the apex the rx-7 came into the door of the jag, spinning the jag to the right and toward the outside wall. that is the last thing phil recalls, so no one can explain how the cf from the jag got into the tail light of the rx-7 or how the rx-7 got over the wall. i would assume the two cars had a secondary impact once they got into the retaining wall. phil wrote off the incident as just that a racing incident, the two cars got together going to the apex. phil thought the car saw him and went wide to give him the pass, maybe that was robs normal line thru the corner? it doesnt much matter now, except people who were&#39;nt there want to push all the blame on one person where it does not belong. Ask anyone who has ever raced against phil club racing or in the Trans-Am series he has Never pushed cars around to get position or a win.

I can&#39;t believe some of the comments on this board, that the jag hit the rx-7 in the rear at 140mph and sent it over the wall, or that there was in car video from phils car and it would be too incriminating to show. phil uses in car data not video. or that a GT1 car is muffled, its kind of hard to keep 700hp quiet especially when the exhaust comes out the right side door. which by the way was also bent from the initial impact.

its time to put away the pitch forks and torches

[StephenB]

its time to put away the pitch forks and torches
[/b]

I don&#39;t know anyone involved at all but I totally agree with this comment. The only thing anyone could have done that neither driver did was go to the actual person and see how they were doing. I think that it was a racing incident after seeing all the pictures and after hereing both sides of the story throuh hearsay.

I&#39;m glad both parties are alright and that in the end is what matters.

Does anyone have any pictures of the rollcage so we can turn this into a learning experience and example of cages.


Stephen

[xr4racer]

Since everyone else who was not there is chiming in, I might as well. I have a problem calling it a RACING incident during a test day. Most test days I have done the first thing everyone says is this is not a race and be very careful and sure of your passes. Usually test days do not have a full staff of corner workers, so I doubt Rob had been shown a blue flag, again I may be wrong. This sort of thing does happen at test days, just not very often. Having had the pleasure of being on the track at the regional before the runoffs at Mid Ohio with the fastest GT1&#39;s in the country, I understand the enormous closing speed involved and the possibility of contact.

matt

ITS #7

[sscmini]

WELL speaking of fastest GT1 cars in the country. You can watch phil this thursday at 12:00 pm on speed channel WIN THE RUNOFFS!!!!!!!

[sscmini]

{What kind of crap is that? As a "slower car" all you should have to do is drive the line.}

Once again as stated above the slower car should have to look in their mirrors and not just drive their line. As me being one of the slower cars you can not just drive you line or almost every weekend I went to the track my car would have come back looking like Rob&#39;s did. I would agree that most are taught to drive the line while being passed, but they dont tell you to do so at all cost and not to know where the faster car is. Phil has always told me to hold my line while being passed, as it helps the faster guys know where I will be. That being said you can not hold the line once you have gotten off line and another car is now there.

{Jill, you&#39;ve been on track plenty of times...do you not remember how loud a rotary is? I can&#39;t hear MY OWN car when I&#39;m near a rotary, let alone a muffled GT1.}

Are you kidding??? Have you not ever been on track with a GT1 Car?? A Rotary is not quite the same as a GT1 car when it comes to the sound.

{Too bad Jill and/or her father probably won&#39;t come back to read this. Race day, test day, practice, qualifying, on the street...it&#39;s the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PASSING DRIVER to ensure a clean pass. If there&#39;s contact, it defaults to the passing driver to step up and apologize.}

Why would I not come back to read this???

{Was there no in-car footage from either car? Or is too incriminating to share? For such an accomplished driver, it sounds like a bonehead move and not being man enough to say "sorry pal, my mistake".}

Where is Rob&#39;s video??

[Greg Amy]

...being one of the slower cars you can not just drive you line...[/b]

WRONG! WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!

Phil is right: it is IMPERATIVE that you drive your line. Absent any hard evidence (point by, for example) the ONLY expectation a passing driver should have is that you&#39;ll be on the line, every time. If I&#39;m coming up on slower traffic I EXPECT them on the line, unless they give me indication to the contrary.

The ONLY predictable place on the track is the line; everything else is virtually random. I&#39;m not going to get deep into it, Jill, but not driving the line makes you UNPREDICTABLE and a hazard to yourself and everyone around you.

On edit: Simply to clarify my position in a more reasonable manner. This item is a pet peeve of mine...

[charrbq]

I&#39;ve held back as long as I could on this, but it&#39;s become a pissing contest rather than a race report.

As a driver of a slower car, I learned that no matter how fast I was going, that I needed to watch my mirrors when other classed cars are on the track. That&#39;s in every case. However, an ITS car is not one of the slower cars normally on the track. As such, most of those guys are not used to watching their mirrors as often as a Honda or Mini driver. Even so, ITS cars are fast...plain fast! I driven one, I&#39;ve watched my mirrors, and I&#39;ve been through a corner and onto a straight faster than most any of it had time to register.

A GT1 car closes at a phenomelol rate to anything other than a similar car. As not only an ARRC winning driver, but a professional driver, the driver in question should&#39;ve been aware of the different speeds of the cars and adjusted to such. It&#39;s possible that, given the area of the impact, the ITS driver had checked his mirrors and seen the approaching car and not realized that he was about to be passed. Even if he held his line, as indicated, it might be different in the eyes of the GT1 driver. The faster the car, the more tendency to "point and blast" rather than maintain speed, and that can affect a line.

Regardless of whose fault the incident was at that point on the track, it was a test day, not a race day. There was no one pressing anyone in a race that called for a risky pass. And, within only a few yards of the incident, there lies one of the longest and widest straights in the racing world. The pass could&#39;ve waited only a couple of seconds and been executed with ease. It was an ill advised move that, fortunately, only hit the pocket book.

[zracre]

I agree Chris...I have seen both drivers race and they are both people that run at the pointy ent of their fields. It sucks that it happened but you can&#39;t change that. just learn from it. It was the passing cars responsibility to make the clean pass. The closing speeds were huge. Phil thought the door was open. Rob prob was driving his line or judged the car would already be past...when it wasn&#39;t he probably continued on as Phil went for it. Just another scenario. You can&#39;t change the outcome so we should look at it and learn from it. GT-1 cars+production based street tire cars=BAD. And yes it was test day and the seconds saved by trying to pass there cost many thousands of dollars. (when the pass could have happened 100 yards ahead)

[dazzlesa]

if you look at a side shot of the car, it looks like the nose of the gt car went under the rx7 and hammered the suspension.
At atlanta during the test it took a couple trips past the starters stand to understand why they were displaying the passing flag.one look in the mirror and nobody, a second glance and a gt car magically appears.
keep your eyes open with those guys on the track!