2002 Mini Cooper

[dj10]

It is, after all, a BMW engine. Please be cautious here
[/b]

You gotta love this!

[C. Ludwig]

I know it's not terribly "SCCA" but I don't enjoy racing against short fields. With more cars in the class, if I get beat, I get beat but if I win, it actually matters.

K
[/b]

WHAT!?!?! That's blasphemy! I love the way you think though.

[Z3_GoCar]

You gotta love this!
[/b]

Oh-yeah, and the M-44 BMW's are just tearing/cleaning up in ITA too . I'm really curious exactly how short Rob's going to be when he completes his build up. Do I hear 2500lbs for the Z3 and the others moved down to ITB because no more weight can be found to remove?

Class the Mini, I know one that's going to be running USTCC. Just call Kevin MacDonald when you do because he can really set you up suspender wise. Who else here is running $10k/set coilovers?

James

[SPiFF]

Got a private request for consideration on the 2002 Mini Cooper. 115 hp / 110 ft/lb stock. Curb weight is around 2525. Struts, FWD, short wheelbase.

2450ish in ITB...thoughts?
[/b]

Andy ...

Why +150# to curb weight in ITB?!?! I was thinking about asking for it a while back in A at ~100# or so more then the CRX. That car seems like the modern day CRX. Is the CRX moving to B?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy ...

Why +150# to curb weight in ITB?!?! I was thinking about asking for it a while back in A at ~100# or so more then the CRX. That car seems like the modern day CRX. Is the CRX moving to B? [/b]

You think this car can make 130whp? 35% more than stock? That is what it would have make to be the 'equal' of the CRX - not to mention the CRX's double wishbone advantage. HUGE.

2525 is the curb weight. 2450 would likely be the race weight. That is 2270 plus driver. You ok?

[Dave Zaslow]

I would welcome the MINI into B.

Here are a couple of links. People with a lot more technical knowledge than I have might give them a call to discuss what these cars are capable of:

A MINI race series
http://www.minidriving.com/page.asp?PageID=7

A MINI head builder's flow numbers (watch out for the oversize valves)
http://www.chrracingproducts.com/CFMnumbers.html

Additionally there are a few prod MINI's out there. They must have some knowledge we can learn from.

Dave Z

[gran racing]

They burn up a set of tires in no-time-flat because the cars are ultra camber-challenged.[/b]

Are they able to do everything to modify camber as allowed in IT trim? In SSC the car is classed at 2,655 and from what I hear does o.k. with tires / handling. I still think 2,450 is a tad bit lite.

[924Guy]

It'd be nice to see some new blood, I'm with Ray... but I'd have to let others more technically astute than I provide direction on weight...

[tnord]

i think the Mini is a great car for ITB and fits the class "character" perfectly. i wouldn't expect it to improve much more or less than any other car in IT trim. i assume it comes out of the process at 2450? considering all the recent changes to weights and classes in IT, if the formula spits out 2450, i'd probably trust it, as it seems to work pretty well.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Are they able to do everything to modify camber as allowed in IT trim? In SSC the car is classed at 2,655 and from what I hear does o.k. with tires / handling. I still think 2,450 is a tad bit lite.

[/b]

Why is that light Dave? Your Prelude has 5 less horsepower, more torque and a better suspension design IIRC.

They are not able to do ANYTHING to change camber except stock alignment. But since it's a McStrut car, 'camber' curve is almost a non-starter.

[JohnRW]

Big brakes.
[/b]

Amen. They do a lot of things well, especially the 'STOP' thing. Ran against them in Showroom Stock for a bunch of years (Gerry ? Sean ? You're out there somewhere...time to chime in) and they're potent little buggers.

In SS, they had limited choice of tires and some continuing issues with half-shafts, but with a little development, it's probably a front-runner in B.

Look at some old SSC lap times for the NA Minis before picking a weight. Too light and you'll piss of a bunch of other ITB guys.

[gran racing]

They are not able to do ANYTHING to change camber except stock alignment.[/b]

Since when?

I was comparing it to the ITB class, not to just my Prelude. If you weren't looking for input, why bother to ask?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Look at some old SSC lap times for the NA Minis before picking a weight. Too light and you'll piss of a bunch of other ITB guys.
[/b]

Track records were set this year at LRP and NHIS:

NHIS: 1:19.6 (ITB track record in the high 1:17's ?)

LRP: 1:04.9 (ITB track record in the high 1:03's)

Any other data? The process is the process. We have to put it through and see what happens. On paper, it will be very close - and that is the goal.

[Fred]

"Track records were set this year at LRP and NHIS:

NHIS: 1:19.6 (ITB track record in the high 1:17's ?)

LRP: 1:04.9 (ITB track record in the high 1:03's)"


I set both of those track records in a 2005 MINI Cooper S (Supercharged). In both cases I destroyed the fron tires. In SSC it is not possible to run these lap times for an entire race. I also had a 2002 MINI (non supercharged) at LRP the best I could manage was a 1:05.6 - in a draft. Again for me to do this I destroyed the left front tire and it was not a pace that could be kept for the entire race. My normal pace in the 2002 MINI was mid to low 1:06's.

At LRP in the 2002 MINI I was absolutley flat around the entire track with the exception for Big Bend and a small lift in the left hander. I do not know how much faster you can go in ITB, but I would be surprised to see a 2002 MINI in the high 1:03's even with camber and the usual IT car preparation. Remember a big part of the 2002 MINI was its brakes and ABS - If I remember correctly there is no ABS in ITB. FYI I could not keep up with the Neons in a straight line they were much faster then me.

Fred

[Andy Bettencourt]

"Track records were set this year at LRP and NHIS:

NHIS: 1:19.6 (ITB track record in the high 1:17's ?)

LRP: 1:04.9 (ITB track record in the high 1:03's)"


I set both of those track records in a 2005 MINI Cooper S (Supercharged). In both cases I destroyed the fron tires. In SSC it is not possible to run these lap times for an entire race. I also had a 2002 MINI (non supercharged) at LRP the best I could manage was a 1:05.6 - in a draft. Again for me to do this I destroyed the left front tire and it was not a pace that could be kept for the entire race. My normal pace in the 2002 MINI was mid to low 1:06's.

At LRP in the 2002 MINI I was absolutley flat around the entire track with the exception for Big Bend and a small lift in the left hander. I do not know how much faster you can go in ITB, but I would be surprised to see a 2002 MINI in the high 1:03's even with camber and the usual IT car preparation. Remember a big part of the 2002 MINI was its brakes and ABS - If I remember correctly there is no ABS in ITB. FYI I could not keep up with the Neons in a straight line they were much faster then me.

Fred

[/b]

Thanks Mr. P. ! So with 50 less hp, the NA Mini wouldn't be touching these times. Come on guys!!!!

Since when?

I was comparing it to the ITB class, not to just my Prelude. If you weren't looking for input, why bother to ask? [/b]

Since I thought you were asking about Showroom stock rules. No camber plates in SS.

I am looking for input - but you say that 2450 is too light - based on what? I put your specs out there to compare...since your car is at 2450 as well. When you say it's too light, it would be nice to hear some reasoning....

The Solo cars and the SS cars eat tires alive.

[JamesB]

Doh never mind, that was a cooper S.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Doh never mind, that was a cooper S. [/b]

I made the same mistake James...48 more hp than the standard Mini and it's still 2 seconds off ITB. I think the 115hp and no ABS, McStruts and FWD make a nice fit in ITB. No?

Write your letters if you think it should/shoudn't...throw some reasons in there for fun!

[JamesB]

All the numbers do add up huh.

[shwah]

This is why I love the fact that we have a process of sorts. I am sure that it includes inputs for brake sizes, chassis type, drive wheels, engine size, head type, etc. Run it through that process and let it run at the weight that process spits out.

If there is something seriously wrong with the result, there is a mechanism to fix that.

They would be fun to race with. Of course more fun if I can beat them, but that is more up to me than to them :P .

[Xian]

I think it'd be a great fit for ITB. I used to own an 05 Cooper S and have driven the standard Cooper. It's a great chassis but the base model engine is a dog, imo. It's not revvy, it's not torquey, it's just "there". How it will stand up to the VW's and Honda's is anyone's guess but I'm betting it will be a good match-up. The aero on the Mini is pretty atrocious, there's no camber curve, and I don't think there's a ton of power to get out of the engine. What it does have is room for big tires and good brakes. It'd probably make a good enduro car...