2002 Mini Cooper

[Andy Bettencourt]

Got a private request for consideration on the 2002 Mini Cooper. 115 hp / 110 ft/lb stock. Curb weight is around 2525. Struts, FWD, short wheelbase.

2450ish in ITB...thoughts?

[Knestis]

Sounds like a sensible addition. Go for it.
K

[Bill Miller]

Andy,

Those hp/tq specs are about where a Mk III Golf is.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy,

Those hp/tq specs are about where a Mk III Golf is. [/b]

On purely specs alone, yes. From what our information tells us, some design aspects of the Golf limit it's power potential while the Mini would get saddled with the standard 25% estimate.

[Knestis]

Eh, hairs only split so far. I think it's great that we can get some new blood in ITB. Let's think about some of those ITA orphans, too. I know it's not terribly "SCCA" but I don't enjoy racing against short fields. With more cars in the class, if I get beat, I get beat but if I win, it actually matters.

K

[Eric Parham]

How many valves per cylinder in the NA Mini? I thought it was 16 total. SOHC or DOHC? Variable valve timing? It is, after all, a BMW engine. Please be cautious here

BTW, a turbo version walked my hotted-up GTI VR6 pretty well at Calabogie last month. Both of us were on comparable street tires, and he had me in the braking zones and corners while I only had him on the longest straight, FWIW.

[shwah]

It is a 1.6 liter 16v. At first blush it could be a fit. Obviously would need some informed input on the capabilities of the motor/chassis.

As with any newer car I would expect outstanding brakes. That would probably worry me most.

[Andy Bettencourt]

SOHC. Standard specs are in the GCR in the SS section. Big brakes.

As far as it being a BMW engine, the only ones I have seen that pick up big gains are the inline 6's...and that isn't limited to BMW. The Datsun and Toyota variants are extremely powerful and have huge potential. It's just a good base design.

[Eric Parham]

SOHC.
[/b]

As long as it's not VVT (unlikely with SOHC but still possible, especially since 16V), I'd say go with it. If VVT, though, frankly I'd be too confused to classify it unless the VVT was specified as disabled.

Edit: VVT=Variable Valve Timing

[JoshS]

It's not actually a BMW engine, it's a Tritec engine (joint venture between Chrysler and Rover.) The engine was developed by Chrysler and is based on the Neon engine.

[Eric Parham]

It's not actually a BMW engine, it's a Tritec engine (joint venture between Chrysler and Rover.) The engine was developed by Chrysler and is based on the Neon engine.
[/b]

Good info. I didn't know that. Any idea on VVT or not?

Edit:

DANGER Will Robinson, it IS a variable valve timing engine. "Valve lift and opening times are masterminded by infinite electronic control adjusting to the driver’s needs for power and performance. This highly efficient valve management combines superior fuel economy, a high standard of motoring culture, spontaneous response and optimised emission management, thus offering a new combination of qualities never seen before." Mini Official Press Release

[JoshS]

Good info. I didn't know that. Any idea on VVT or not?[/b]

Sorry, I don't know.
EDIT: just saw your edited post, so now I know!

Good info. I didn't know that. Any idea on VVT or not?

DANGER Will Robinson, it IS a variable valve timing engine. "Valve lift and opening times are masterminded by infinite electronic control adjusting to the driver’s needs for power and performance. This highly efficient valve management combines superior fuel economy, a high standard of motoring culture, spontaneous response and optimised emission management, thus offering a new combination of qualities never seen before." Mini Official Press Release
[/b]

Actually, I still don't know. That press release is for the upcoming second-generation Mini. I suspect the first-generation one didn't have VVT, but as I said before, I don't really know.

[Eric Parham]

Actually, I still don't know. That press release is for the upcoming second-generation Mini. I suspect the first-generation one didn't have VVT, but as I said before, I don't really know.
[/b]

You're right. It seems to have a redesigned 120hp "Prince" engine instead of the 116hp "Tritec". Still not sure about VVT for the Tritec. It might not, but I don't have enough info.

Edit: BTW, I think it's interesting and possibly important that the only difference between the 90hp 1.6L Tritec in the Europe-only MINI One and the 116hp 1.6L Tritec in the MINI Cooper is ONLY the ECU! That makes me think VVT, but I guess it could be something else. "In some markets, such as Australia and the US, only the MINI Cooper and Cooper S are sold because the MINI One's engine was considered to deliver insufficient power to run an air conditioner - a necessary feature in those climates. However, the only difference between the engines in the 'One' and the 'Cooper' models is a software change within the engine control unit which is tuned for optimum fuel economy on the MINI One and for a compromise between power and economy on the Cooper." Wikipedia MINI link. See also Josh's hyperlink to the Tritec 1.6L, as above.

[Rabbit07]

It is a 1.6 SOHC with 16 valves. No VVT. It was also used by Chrysler in Europe in the PT Cruiser. It looks just like a small Neon engine with a timming chain instead od belt.

[gran racing]

Thought the Forbes review of the Mini was interesting. Here's a segment of it:

"We knew the price since BMW announced it in January. (Yes, that's right, BMW, which has owned the Mini brand since 2000.) We also knew that some in the automotive press have trashed the Mini for being gratuitously nostalgic. But, after having driven it, what we didn't know was that the Mini Cooper is in reality a heavily camouflaged BMW 3-Series on a smaller frame that sells for little more than half the dough."

You're right Andy - big brakes! 276 front; 239 rear according to the GCR.

I'd like to see the car go into ITB, but not at that weight. (Again, assuming it's not a VVT as that would change things a bit.) I'll be interested in saying what one of the Mini performance shops I know has to say about it.

[leggwork]

how could a FWD car be considered a camouflaged 3 series ???? Sounds like journalistic license. I'm sure the BMW chassis engineers did their best, but when I rented a mini cooper and took it to Infineon when I was a guest instructor for the BMW club, it didn't feel as confidence inspiring as even my e30.
cheers,
bruce

Thought the Forbes review of the Mini was interesting. Here's a segment of it:

"We knew the price since BMW announced it in January. (Yes, that's right, BMW, which has owned the Mini brand since 2000.) We also knew that some in the automotive press have trashed the Mini for being gratuitously nostalgic. But, after having driven it, what we didn't know was that the Mini Cooper is in reality a heavily camouflaged BMW 3-Series on a smaller frame that sells for little more than half the dough."

You're right Andy - big brakes! 276 front; 239 rear according to the GCR.

I'd like to see the car go into ITB, but not at that weight. (Again, assuming it's not a VVT as that would change things a bit.) I'll be interested in saying what one of the Mini performance shops I know has to say about it.
[/b]

[Eric Parham]

how could a FWD car be considered a camouflaged 3 series ???? Sounds like journalistic license. I'm sure the BMW chassis engineers did their best, but when I rented a mini cooper and took it to Infineon when I was a guest instructor for the BMW club, it didn't feel as confidence inspiring as even my e30.
cheers,
bruce
[/b]

Good question. The rear suspension looks fully independent. The above-cited Mini Official Press Release called the front suspension MacPherson (mis-spelled as "McPherson" in the reference), but I don't think that would be correct if it has any kind of upper A-arm or other BMW-style links to improve the camber-change curve. Does anyone know if it's just a simple MacStrut or whether it has a modern front suspension that just looks like a MacStrut?

Edit: Weren't some of the 3-series AWD?

[JoshS]

Good question. The rear suspension looks fully independent. The above-cited Mini Official Press Release called the front suspension "McPherson" (mis-spelled in original), but I don't think that would be correct if it has any kind of upper A-arm or other BMW-style links to improve the camber-change curve. Does anyone know if it's just a simple MacStrut or whether it has a modern front suspension that just looks like a MacStrut?

Edit: Weren't some of the 3-series AWD?
[/b]

I just checked the BMW parts book, and it from there it looks like a simple Macstrut (but not the same as a 3-series).

[RSTPerformance]

While I would certainly be worried seeing one show up at the track, I do think that the Mini would be a great direction for ITB by bringing in new blood... It may even score new people with "less money" just because they would be proud racing against the Mini (basically it would bring the whole class status up a notch), rather than a bunch of (no offence) old vw's and honda's. - Seriosly NO OFFENCE, I have no better, and I am one of those that would enjoy saying that we race against cars such as the mini.

Raymond "I still think despite the changes in ITA that ITB is the best class with the most "car" options for "winners" Blethen

[Andy Bettencourt]

This is a simple FWD McStrut car. It has no heritage with the 3-series BMW. The camber curve is non-existant. Check with the GS and HS guys who run these in Solo. They burn up a set of tires in no-time-flat because the cars are ultra camber-challenged.

It's a 115hp car that fits in ITB at 2450 no problem. No? It would be a nimble little devil but outclassed on the bigger stuff I bet.