2007 ARRC Planning

[Butch Kummer]

As I was responding to MattBerg's most recent tirade (look under SEDIV), I realized it was his rantings about a year ago that made me aware that this forum existed. I know at least part of the success of the 2006 ARRC was due to communication we had here and that would not have been possible had it not been for his rantings about the Jekyll Secret Meeting bringing my name into things. The racing gods do INDEED have a sense of humor!

At any rate, I'm thinking we need to add a race group to the schedule in 2007. ITR will be coming on board next year, so they get grouped with ITS while we take the TCC guys out and combine them with ITO in a "new" group (we will be running ITO/ITU at all our Atlanta Region events in 2007 and I see them growing a BUNCH in the next year). That leaves SPO, GTA and LMSC in the ground-pounder group, and those numbers are increasing every year as well. Everybody likes to race on Saturday and have Sunday to get home, but we only have so much daylight available in November in North Georgia. I'm wondering who we could move to Sunday when it hit me!

What if we eliminate the warm-up Saturday morning? The negatives are somebody's going to have to be ready to race at 8:15 Saturday morning rather than 9:15, but we could always rotate that each year so the same guys don't get hosed all the time. We'd also have to cut back on qualifying on Friday - maybe go to two 15 minutes sessions? Another option would be to keep the warm-up but cut the races back to 15 laps (I'm NOT real keen on that - the 20 lappers are different - but it IS an option).

I'd welcome your input, and when you reply be sure to thank MattBerg for his contribution to the process.

See ya...

[gran racing]

My vote is to cut the Sat. warm-ups - at least in terms of the quantity of them. Maybe do one hardship warm-up that requires permission from the steward to participate in? This would still cut much time out and allow for another group.

Since so many people travel great distances for the event, I really don't think making the race shorter is a good idea. Same basic thing with shortening the qual. sessions. For many of us, we need as much of this time to learn the track as possible. I'd rather be learning it during qual. and potentially improving those times than during a warm-up.

You go Mattberg - thank you!

[Greg Amy]

Butch, I tend to pass on the warm-ups; I certainly have in the last two years. Just another opportunity to break something...I like Dave's suggestion for an approved, shortened warm-up .

Thanks, MattB!

[Butch Kummer]

Problem with doing even one warm-up is we'd have to do two. The open-wheeled guys are people too and they don't take kindly to being used as speed bumps by us full-fendered types.

We could probably keep the 20 minute sessions on Friday by dropping the Pro-IT that afternoon, but I'd NEVER get that past my Board. I need to get my spreadsheet out and start ciphering...

[JeffYoung]

Butch, thanks for this. I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.

Thanks again for asking us for input.

[lateapex911]

Butch, thanks for asking!

What about 2 SHORT warm ups? heck you'll never really learn anything in the AM when the track is greasy anyway, and few rarely need all the time anyway. The only reason I'd do one is if i crunched the car in the Pro IT, or had some other reason to see if it rolled properly, etc.

Why not do a 20 minute MAX session, first cone, first served, like you did qualifying, 10 minutes closed wheel then 10 minutes open, no break in between?

The race were over this year about 4:30 right? And it seemed like there was planty of time for the podium ceremonies and then some.

(I watched the ITS TCC race and I cringed at the interface. I''m sure that you had little option in that grouping, but splitting them apart would be great, they just make their lap times in different ways.)

And I'm not sure I'll thank MAttberg....who knows there ARE different ways you could have discovered us!

[zracre]

since the Pro IT is an Atlanta regional type thing why not move that to sunday? and while we are moving stuff around...the enduro first thing on sunday am...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Butch, thanks for this. I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.

Thanks again for asking us for input. [/b]

+ 1.

[Bildon]

2 very short warm ups please. 1 CW and 1 OW.
Just long enough to get 3 laps in and find out if your thing-a-ma-bobby is going to fall off or not.

Pro-IT, agreed, move it to Sunday unless you really feel the spectators who are not there with the teams will disappear without it... how many Spectator tickets are sold anyway?

Is the Pro IT really needed? Ahh, it's a cash cow I bet :P

[Hracer]

Thanks for asking for input!

I wouldn't mind 15 min qualifying sessions, as long as there are two in case something doesn't go according to plan in the first one. We never shoot to stay out a whole qualifying session anyway, the car is at its fastest the first few laps.

As far as the Saturday morning warm-ups go, although I see them exactly as Greg does - as another chance to break something and so we don't plan on running them - I think they can be very important in some cases. Last year we seized a driveshaft in Friday's Pro IT. After replacing it and doing an alignment on friday evening, even just the 3-4 laps we were out there for in Saturday's warm up were very convenient to have to make sure the car is 100%. As others suggested, perhaps one or two hardship practices with prior permission to run is the best idea.

Moving the Pro IT after the sprint races has its pros and cons. For people coming from out of town, there are those who don't run it to save their car/equipment for Saturday, while there are those who choose to run it as extra track time before the big race. As far as those who are running for points (as we were last year), we are somewhat forced to take the additional risk and run it on Friday. These same people would still run the race if it would be held Sunday and would probably be happier doing so, however there would likely be a loss of entries from those out of town who won't stay for it.

[Fi3555]

The warm-up sessions are a great way to break something or write a car off . Been there, done that !
Two qualifying sessions of 15-20 minutes would be just right.

What happened to our 40 minute Q session for the enduro ?? Quite a shock when I learned I couldn't
go back on course after a short time in the pits.


Tim
#97 ITB Golf

[IPRESS]

Butch,
This is my 5th ARRC towing from Texas. I always plan on leaving Weds. and getting home Monday night no matter how you guys set the schedule. My suggestion would be to do away with the warm up per say, but offer a hardship lap for those who need to check something out.
I am not sure what you guys opinion of the Pro Miata Madness race was, but I think if promoted as "the race" where the best miata racers run against each other, the field will grow into a large number. I think this year people didn't really get the idea. It was pretty cool having all different kinds of miatas out there. Mazda had to love it. Next year I think you will have several MX5 Cup car entries if you guys choose to keep it part of the weekend.
Having several different races attracts racers like myself, who are there just to compete. If the ARRC sprint race was the only one I could run, I doubt I would tow over. The many different events are a big draw for the long haulers.

[gsbaker]

I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.[/b]

You've never been there before and you don't care to bother with warm ups? I love it. That's confidence!

Jeff and Andy get the testicular hypertrophy award.

[RSTPerformance]

Thanks Mattburg, ego going up???

ok butch...

I second (third forth???) the comments above.

Keep all the ARRC races the same times for qualifying and same length races. Move the Pro IT race to Sunday morning. On Sunday morning do 30 minute qualifying first thing for PRO IT, then Qualifying for Enduro, then back to the Pro IT race.

Saturday warmups could be changed to a hardship with permission only. I know for sure that I would want to be able to test something before I had to race with it. It also "warms up" the track for the first race. Granted if a "fix" didn't work in the warmups, and you were the first or second race you wont get it fixed anyhow, so some may argue what good is a Hardship?

Also how many people scrub in brand new tires in warm up?

Raymond

[Eagle7]

Also how many people scrub in brand new tires in warm up?
[/b]

My tires require 24 hours of down time after the initial heat cycling.

[crushed]

I'm all in for moving the PRO-it to Sunday. The ARRC should be everyone's first race of the weekend, it sucks to have a crappy car for the ARRC because it got smashed in the PRO (ask me how I know).

How about we cut the miata madness race and get the enduro back to 3 hours?

If we cut warmups from Saturday morning is there enough time for the pro-it race as the last race on Saturday?

[Butch Kummer]

I haven't been asleep, I've just been waiting to collect your ideas.

We have a post-mortem of the 2006 ARRC scheduled for next Tuesday evening (11/21) and we'll consider a number of the things discussed here. One of the things I hate about the Runoffs is that your last qualifier is on Thursday and then two-thirds of the field sits around at least one day before they race. I want qualifying for the Championship races on Friday and all those races on Saturday. Sunday is for the "bonus" races and is a self-contained (qualifying and race) day. And with eight (8) ARRC groups, both Friday and Saturday are packed! Given those restraints, there are a couple of things suggested here that won't work:

1. Qualifying and racing before the Church Break on Sunday. Suppose Pro-IT qualifies first thing Sunday morning, then another (non-IT) group, then the Pro-IT race. We thought about that for Miata Madness in 2006, but even if T&S could get the grid sheets out as the last Pro-IT car comes down pit road (our guys are good but not THAT good) the GCR requires them to be posted at least 30 minutes before the start of the race to give people time to protest. Won't fit in the time period avaiable.

2. Can't run the Enduro before lunch because we'd have no qualifying times. I suppose we COULD form the grid based on entry timestamp, though - THAT would get people to register early!

Not in any particular order, these are the championship groups I'm looking at for 2007:

ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
ITA, IT7
ITR, ITS
Open-wheel (they want to split up but the numbers just aren't there)
TCC, ITO
Ground-pounders (and don't even THINK about dropping them!)
Little stuff (SPU, ITU, ITT, etc.)

We'll certainly give consideration to moving the Pro-IT to Sunday, but that would mean Miata Madness is toast. At least one race on Sunday has to be non-IT to give a break between (for example) Pro-IT and the Enduro for those wanting to do both. I was disappointed in the turnout for the "Wings & Things" race, so during the year I'll get a read from my fellow ground-pounders to see if they'd want a bonus race on Sunday. The Enduro is safe (gives the long-haulers another reason to make the trip), but I don't see it going back to three hours with two other races that day. But then if Mazda is willing to write a BIG check, all bets would be off on running Pro-IT at all.

If we drop the three 10-minute warm-ups Saturday morning, we can fit all eight Championship races into the available daylight (assuming reasonable favor with the Racing Gods). I'll also look at having two 5-minute REAL hardship ("we-rebuilt-the-car-last-night-and-need-to-see-if-the-wheels-fall-off") warm-ups that would require Chief Steward approval.

Earlier this year we discussed establishing some kind of travel fund, but right now I don't believe the numbers justify the hassles it would create. Based on participation this year, an extra $50 in the entry fee would mean something like $250 for those travelling 500 miles or more. The reason it works even slightly at the Runoffs is because $5 of every National entry fee through the year goes into the fund and we don't have that luxury.

There's no real vote here, I just want to keep y'all abreast of what we're thinking and see whatcha think. I was pretty happy with the way 2006 went, but (as on a good race lap) there's ALWAYS a way to make it better.

Keep those calls, cards, and letters coming in...

Butch Kummer
2007 ARRC Committee Chairman
(yes, we're running unopposed)

[lateapex911]

Butch I just heard today, and it wasn't from an official source that Dalylight savings time is not going to be in effect next year...it's being pahsed in 2 weeks later. That could add an hour of daylight each day for you.

I'd check into that, it might help.

[dj10]

Butch I just heard today, and it wasn't from an official source that Dalylight savings time is not going to be in effect next year...it's being pahsed in 2 weeks later. That could add an hour of daylight each day for you.

I'd check into that, it might help. [/b]

What about moving the whole thing back a couple of weeks too?

[zracre]

I'm all in for moving the PRO-it to Sunday. The ARRC should be everyone's first race of the weekend, it sucks to have a crappy car for the ARRC because it got smashed in the PRO (ask me how I know).

How about we cut the miata madness race and get the enduro back to 3 hours?

If we cut warmups from Saturday morning is there enough time for the pro-it race as the last race on Saturday?
[/b]

+1