The Longest Day is Back! 24 hours at Nelson

[BillW]

John is 100% correct.. I'll give up a 90 sec pit stop to get a fresh driver in the car that can turn more consistent times and be more alert on the track. Bad s--t starts to happen after 2 hr stints when drivers get sloppy... especially at 3AM with little or no sleep. Why risk throwing away an entire race to due to driver error.

The teams that runs 3hr stints probably won't finish... (ask Brian M)

We'll be doing the Nelson 24 with 4 drivers which will give each driver about 5 hrs rest between stints (dictated by fuel capacity)

Bill

[mgyip]

It's romantic to think that you'll have a team of drivers who will all perform well with 3+ hour shifts in the car, but it's fantasy. Somebody will end up on their roof, or stuck in a wall. That's a sudden reality-check that maybe it's not such a hot strategy, after all. Driver fatigue, and the inevitable problems that that will cause will more than eat up any benefits of "going long" on fuel.[/b]

Romantic or otherwise, building an endurance team around drivers who can't (sorry for the horrible pun) endure is silly. I've worked with one team that has had drivers who are more than capable of sitting in the car for 3+ hours without a mishap. Said team won the 12-Hours at the Point a few years back and took a 2nd at Moroso in '99 or '00 - I can't remember anymore. The same team ran the Tropical 12-Hour this year in Homestead and the Nelson 12-Hour with only 2 drivers and finished 2nd to an SRF at Homestead and 2nd to a Miata at Nelson. It is certainly possible.

The idea of using a monster-cell and making few stops is a race strategy that clearly works. Adding a large cell can have drawbacks BUT it's all about car preparation. If you just drop a 25 gallon cell in the back of a car that wasn't intended for that kind of weight, you'll have problems - no sh*t. As a friend always says to me PPP = PPP - Piss Poor Preparation = Piss Poor Performance.

Matthew

[trd771]

The real issue you all are missing is the name. Now that it will be in August, how can they get by calling it the Longest Day. It used to be run on the 3rd weekend in June, around the longest daylight of the year. However, I am glad to hear this event is back. Been to it a few times and been apart of two winning teams and it is a great event.

[85itccivic]

proof that the long fuel stints work well can be furnished by the little CRX that could at VIR last weekend. Because of an ontrack incident which caused an early stop by one of our drivers we kept the next driver in the car 3 hours to get to the next appointed stop. We made 4 stops with 5 drivers . I felt it a big help to put a fresh driver in the car at every stop with this strategy. We moved from 74 on the grid to 52 at the finish. At one time we were as high as 49th on the track. We beat a lot of faster cars by staying on the track . Our flexibility granted by carrying extra fuel made it much easier to work around our pit mates schedule so we were not trying to pit at the same time . The Nissan ITC car was making stops about every hour and a half . This made our life much easier because of the extra time they spent in the pits.

[mgyip]

The Nissan ITC car was making stops about every hour and a half . [/b]

The Pulsar didn't stop ever 1 1/2 hours for fuel either They were paddocked next to us and had a "roadside table" set out to fix the car when it came off the track with frightening regularity.

Back to the subject of seat time - most events have a maximum allowable seat time which was 4 hours in this case. We had one driver who would have gladly finished the event but had to vacate the seat due to that maximum time rule - not a complaint, just an observation. Then again, this is the same driver who routinely double-stints b/c he enjoys racing and is no slower/faster at one minute than he is at 4 hours. Given the previous comments, I can't believe that no one ascribes to the pit strategy of "Go as fast and as long as possible on as much fuel as allowed".

To quote that famous line from Better Off Dead - "Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn"

[Green Flag Inc]

This sounds like a great event. I got into road racing the year after The Longest Night ceased to exist at Moroso, but absolutely love these enduros. Ledges is a hell of a drive but I just might talk Mike V into that one. Anybody know when the intent to run / registration process will open? Regards, Chris B #99ITS

[slydrite]

Nothing personal to the person that made the comment, but if they're not prepared to do a 3 - 3.5 hr stint, they're not the person that you want for a 24 hr race. Double-length stints like that are pretty much required for a 24 hr race if you want any chance at a win.
[/b]

completely agree!

[Hahn63]

This sounds like a great event. I got into road racing the year after The Longest Night ceased to exist at Moroso, but absolutely love these enduros. Ledges is a hell of a drive but I just might talk Mike V into that one. Anybody know when the intent to run / registration process will open? Regards, Chris B #99ITS
[/b]

Chris, we are working on the process now. We hope to have all the information by December. I'll keep everyone posted. Come on up we love to have you! You will not be sorry you made the drive!

All, I need input on how to keep entries fair for all. We only have 50 spots and I don't want to end up with the mess Summit has for the 12 hour. The track is asking to keep 10 spots open for "Sponsor Teams" and such. So that only leaves 40. I want to see a good mix of cars and would like to see the people that have supported the 12 hour of Nelson get some consideration but I am open to any reasonable ideas.

Roland

[RSTPerformance]

Chris, we are working on the process now. We hope to have all the information by December. I'll keep everyone posted. Come on up we love to have you! You will not be sorry you made the drive!

All, I need input on how to keep entries fair for all. We only have 50 spots and I don't want to end up with the mess Summit has for the 12 hour. The track is asking to keep 10 spots open for "Sponsor Teams" and such. So that only leaves 40. I want to see a good mix of cars and would like to see the people that have supported the 12 hour of Nelson get some consideration but I am open to any reasonable ideas.

Roland
[/b]

My suggestions...

1. All spots are on a first come bases.
2. Deadlines to fit into one of the following catagories is...
3. After the deadline is reached competitors from the waiting lists will be filled into other Tier spots in order of highest Teir seniority starting with Tier 1. Example: Tier 1 waiting list entrants have first dibs on open slots at the time of the deadline, then Tier 2, and lastly Tier 3. If their are not enough slots to fill all the reservations then those who registered before the deadline will have seniority if spots open up.
4. 1st tear: 10 spots open for all Sponsor Teams. To be a sponsor team you must meet the following minimum requirements...
5. 2nd Tear: 20 spots will be open for past compeating teams of the Nelson 12hr. Please send us a results sheet to confirm your attendance with your registration.
6. 3rd Tear: 20 spots are open for any team wishing to compete in the Nelson 24hr.
7. After the deadline all new entrants reguardless of Tier will be at the bottom of the waiting list in order of the date we recieve the entry.

Raymond

[JamesB]

I think what he was after was the SM mafia taking up most of the seats out there.

That I have no idea how to avoid other then to maybe limit per class in the first phase of registration with a lottory for the remaining X slots. But you can still get tons of miata due to ITA, ITS, SM and SSM.

[Hahn63]

I think what he was after was the SM mafia taking up most of the seats out there.

[/b]

James, That is not my intent at all. SM is a very welcome group and they put on a good show. If we end up with a bunch of them so be it. Now if they fill the enitre field we may have to look at it. :P

I just want a fair registration process and want to attract quality teams. I'm not looking for pro teams ( they are welcome too!) but want to see our very talented ameture teams( we have a lot of them) strut thier stuff.

Roland

[Knestis]

... The track is asking to keep 10 spots open for "Sponsor Teams" and such. So that only leaves 40. ...[/b]

Am I going to be sorry if I ask what this means? If I - or my sponsor - pony up $$ for the event, we get a guaranteed starting spot?? There are plenty of other opportunities for the well-heeled to buy advantages in this game, enough that this strikes me as a bit much. Or tell me I don't understand...

After the hullaballoo with the Summit 12 hour in 2005 (it was no biggie this year, I don't think) we talked about how it might be done better. I'd start by tying the entry to a LOGBOOK NUMBER rather than a person. Whether by lottery or postmark, once an entry is awarded it should not be subject to the whims of the free market like a Tickle Me Elmo on eBay. If you get it, use it on the car for which the entry was submitted, or lose your place. No speculative entries. No faux entrants.

I think it would be appropriate to offer right-of-first-refusal to the previous year's class champion entrant, for the purpose of defending their title. However, if you're running a different class, that's out the window. Take the preferences very far at all and it can get silly: Do I need to enlist a driver for my team who has done previous Longest Days, in order to score a spot? What does "people that have supported the 12 hour of Nelson" end up meaning, in application? If I've entered four of them, do I get a greater preference than someone who's entered three?

Regardless, I'm of the opinion that spots should go to those who are willing to get their stuff in order well in advance, whether that means they get pulled out of a pool of qualified entries or get in the show by virtue of being in line first. Use a postmark entry opening date (forget the fax entries and don't accept FedEx, etc.) and fill the slots first-come, first-served in the order they are stamped. If there are more than 50 postmarked Day 1, everyone has an equal shot in a blind drawing and the remainder get put in order of draw, into a reserve list. If there are 40 on Day 1 and 20 on Day 2, fill the first 40 spots then draw from the second batch for random assignment to the remaining 10 slots. And so on.

Regardless of what one thinks about Miati, class shouldn't have any other bearing on the entry process, perhaps other than the aforementioned Defending Champion provisional.

FWIW.

K

[Bildon]

I'm available if anyone wants a funded driver who know how to win at Nelson.
I wont pay in cash but I can pay in race tires :P

I've won a buncho races here and know the track as well as any.
ITB times: 1:20
ITS times: 1:18

Oh and I think a 3 hour stint is nothing. I've done 2, 24 hour races and many ECRs.

I'm somewhat local to Nelson so bringing a support trailer and bribing the locals is not a problem.

[Marc]

Roland,

On a purely selfish note, having done 2 of the recent 12 hours at Nelson, I'm all for some sort of consideration being given to teams that have supported the race in the past. I also believe that a returning core group of teams will be good for the race long term. 24 hour events require a whole different level of planning and preparation than a 12 or 13 hour effort, and if you can somewhat "guarantee" a spot to a limited number of teams that will put in that effort year after year, you can build a good base of support - teams could plan on it and structure their schedules around it.

On a slightly less selfish note (since we haven't won out there - yet), it would also be nice to see past class winners invited back. It was tough at Summit a couple years ago having one of the class champs lose at the lottery drawing before he ever turned a wheel on the track.

Whatever you decide, thanks for taking this on. Preparing to race is tough enough. Preparing to stage an event like this must be a logistical nightmare ...

marc

[JamesB]

James, That is not my intent at all. SM is a very welcome group and they put on a good show. If we end up with a bunch of them so be it. Now if they fill the enitre field we may have to look at it. :P

I just want a fair registration process and want to attract quality teams. I'm not looking for pro teams ( they are welcome too!) but want to see our very talented ameture teams( we have a lot of them) strut thier stuff.

Roland
[/b]

Ohhhhh you mean the past with the squatters on registrations. I do agree thats hard to contain. But then I need to ponder the suggestions that came from Dr. K. Tieing the registration to a logbook would work. However, what about exceptions when say the logbook registered gets rolled at another event and they same team wants to enter a different car?

As long as the sane whatifs are covered I think his ideas are pretty much what your after.

[Knestis]

...what about exceptions when say the logbook registered gets rolled at another event and they same team wants to enter a different car? ...[/b]

Don't think i didn't consider this possibility, having been in exactly that situation when I clobbered Pablo I a month before the VIR 13 last year.

A "boy that sucks" waiver process could be written into the supps, requiring submission of photo evidence or copy of the tech inspector's logbook notes after a major shunt. The same question has to get addressed re: entry/deposit submissions, and bail-out/refund clauses, too.

K

[Hahn63]

Am I going to be sorry if I ask what this means? If I - or my sponsor - pony up $$ for the event, we get a guaranteed starting spot?? There are plenty of other opportunities for the well-heeled to buy advantages in this game, enough that this strikes me as a bit much. Or tell me I don't understand...

[/b]

You don't understand.

I should have used the words "Promoter Option” The track wants to encourage media to participate in this event. To that end they are handing out free entries (with stipulations on event coverage attached) to entice participation from them. The track is also looking for a few “factory prototypes” that have participated in the past. Any unused spots will be put back in the pot for all to use.


We have yet to decide how entries will be done, thanks to all that have put in ideas so far, I’m still looking for input on this. Trying to please everyone can be a hard thing to do, but I’m sure we can find a way.

I’m hoping the field will be large enough to worry about who gets what spots. This, of course, is always a concern for an event of this type. My gut feeling is it will fill up, only time will tell.

Thanks for the encouraging words, I hope not to disappoint!

Roland

[Knestis]

That's some better, I suppose...

Thanks for clarifying.

K

[Greg Amy]

That's some better, I suppose...[/b]

...especially if we get a hack as a team mate on one of the cars...

[jjjanos]

Lots of options...

If you want to reward loyalty, I suggest setting two entry dates.

Open registration to past ENTRANTS on Day 1.
Open it everyone else on Day X.

Most important - the entrant must be a driver in the car. That's what Summit did this year and it weeded out most of the chaff.

I say entrants because if you open to past participants, what happens if the 6-driver team splits up and submits 6 entries?

I also recommend a server upgrade if your are going to allow internet entries. Ya don't want the server to crash when the open entry deadline hits.

Just my $0.02

Jeff