What cars as time goes on?

[JimLill]

Surely as time goes on, the 20 year+ cars will fade and newer models will replace them as the weapon of choice. Guys like me give the oldies a new life when we buy a turnkey racer and refurb it, but at some point the 142, 2002 and A2 in ITB will fade. Bildon has moved forward with the Corrado in ITS, does anybody have any thoughts as to what else will become the next big thing?

[gran racing]

The Golf III in ITB. It is classed very nicely weight-wise, and a good overall car. :angry:

ITA will be interesting. I'm not aware of any fully built Neons, but that would be an interesting car. The Miata has already shown what it can do in ITA. I also think the newer gen. MR2 would be an excellent car.

[joeg]

Jim--Look at the new Beetle. It is classified in C.

[JimLill]

any thoughts on the ZX3 in ITA?

[flaboy]

I was thinking the same thing about the new Beatle.

I think it will be a great car.Have actually given thought on builing one.
Problem is the car is very pricey right now.

[dropkick317]

I think the ZX3 would be a good car, but I think the ZX2 would be a better choice. Imo I think the ZX3 has alot of high weight, the ZX2 is a little sleeker and shares the same engine. The other issue is the suspension, if someone can get them to corner I think it would be a front runner.

[JimLill]

there is the SVT Focus that might be a source of suspension bits... also perhaps the euro versions

[Z3_GoCar]

Surely as time goes on, the 20 year+ cars will fade and newer models will replace them as the weapon of choice. Guys like me give the oldies a new life when we buy a turnkey racer and refurb it, but at some point the 142, 2002 and A2 in ITB will fade. Bildon has moved forward with the Corrado in ITS, does anybody have any thoughts as to what else will become the next big thing?
[/b]

Although it exceeds the performance limits of 'R and interesting car in the next few years would be the Eliese. Maybe what we should do is reform ITD and put the 'C cars there, then move all the classes down one notch to make room for cars like the Eliese at the top.

James

[JoshS]

Although it exceeds the performance limits of 'R and interesting car in the next few years would be the Eliese. Maybe what we should do is reform ITD and put the 'C cars there, then move all the classes down one notch to make room for cars like the Eliese at the top.
[/b]

The problem with that (moving cars down a slot) is that you screw up track records. The year you move faster cars down a slot, you will eradicate all of the old track records, which isn't really fair to those record holders.

The T1-T3 classes are going through this realization right now as they face being moved down next year to slot faster cars into T1.

There should be a better way. What SHOULD have happened was that back when IT was formed, ITA should have consisted of the slowest cars, and ITD should have been the fastest ones. Then as time goes on and cars get faster, new classes could have been added (ITE, ITF, etc) that worked in the same progression.

[lateapex911]

Although it exceeds the performance limits of 'R and interesting car in the next few years would be the Eliese. Maybe what we should do is reform ITD and put the 'C cars there, then move all the classes down one notch to make room for cars like the Eliese at the top.

James
[/b]

na, we can just come up with a class called ITZ or whatever if the need arises for a class faster than ITR.

Lets get ITR rolling first, and see how it does.

[JimLill]

Can't the class system be "rescued"....

ITA thru ITC as we know it

ITD reserved for Diesel


ITR through ITS as we know it, faster cars if added to be upwards, ITP etc.

Reserve ITT-ITZ for "local" classes, making ITE as we know it ITU with expansion in each direction as-required

Lock it or something similar in now

[Z3_GoCar]

Sorry to stir up such a storm, just thought the Eliese would make a class killer car as in any class it'd be in it'd kill it. Maybe we need a Spec-Eliese class

Some more cars for the future that I'd love to drive would be the Z4 coupe and the Solstice. The Coupe would be a heavy 'R car, while the Solstice would either be a light 'S or a heavy 'A depending on how much weigh would come out and how much more hp get out of the motor. I'd love it as a light 'S car.

On a sad note, BMW won&#39;t have a factory supported race team on this side of the Atlantic next season It seems the minimum requirement is a compact car with a 5.0 liter V8. A 3.2 liter straight six just doesn&#39;t cut it any longer <_<

James

[Dave Zaslow]

I think it will be hard to find new C cars. B cars may have some options:

Chevy Aveo and brethren;

Toyota Yaris;

even a Honda might Fit.

Another observation, is the 5 year rule still relevant? Is IT still the pasture for all of those old SS cars?

Dave Z

[JimLill]

Regardless of class or marque, I&#39;d think the only cars that would catch on would be ones that there are aftermarket suspension bits and other within-the-rules parts for.

[Knestis]

THIS could be a long conversation, since it bears on "what we think IT should be," and ideas are going to reflect a variety of priorities, I think...

There are a lot of cars between 5 and 10 years old that slot into existing classes and with the PCA not-quite-a-formula in place, there&#39;s a better chance than in the past 20 years to get them close to right when they are first listed. Problem is that interest seems to get focused on newer/zoomier if the market is left to function of its own devices.

Greg A. and I were talking about the "olden days" when a MkI GTI was a competitive ITA car and the first-generation RX7 was in ITS. A lot has changed but again, we have an opportunity to keep the lid on creep while allowing new cars into the game.

I strongly believe that we should proactively class some cars that look like they meet the profile of a successful IT candidate, rather than waiting until a member requests listing. Focus on building ITC and ITB options, since they are naturally more affordable and good entry points into the game.

ITR is going to be a useful addition but it&#39;s also going to contribute to the gentrification of Improved Touring. I was marveling at the number of toterhomes and semi rigs at the VIR 13, laughing out loud about the amount of dough getting spent to go club racing. We have GOT to do some things to make room for real people to play our game and the two slowest IT classes would be perfect for that, but a "they will come, then we&#39;ll build it" approach to classing is NOT eliminating a barrier to entry.

K

EDIT - Dave Z&#39;s question about the 5-year rule is a good one. It deserves a rethink, particularly if there&#39;s a move to allow IT to qualify for the Rub-Offs based on participation numbers...

[JeffYoung]

Kirk, that is a good point about being proactive with ITC and B to "save" the classes and attract low cost entries. ITR addressed the issue that was keeping faster cars otu of IT, now how about we do the same with the "slower" ones?

I would be willing to work with you to come up with a list of Kias, Hyundais, Nissans, Toyotas, VWs, etc. of more recent vintage that would fit in B and C. You want to take a stab at that with me?

[gran racing]

I totally agree that we should be more proactive and get some new cars classed into ITC & B, and would also be willing to help with this.

Dave

[Knestis]

We actually brainstormed lists in a couple of discussions in the past year or so here. What needs to happen is for people to actually submit the requests through channels, I think since it&#39;s not likely that the system is going to take to a strategic kind of approach.

How about we start a clearinghouse of sorts in another thread, where individuals can "sponsor" a new B or C car, adopt it as a case, gather/share specs, and submit the paper?

K

EDIT - or maybe I&#39;m wrong. ITAC peeps - is there room for submission of a table of ITCS data for currently unlisted B and C cars, for addition to the book?

[tnord]

once again, kirk is right. i think that&#39;s a great idea.

[lateapex911]

Sure, Kirk, I don&#39;t see why not. Lately we&#39;ve had some big fish to fry on the ITAC calls, I know it sounds silly, but some calls have been over 5 hours. And we&#39;re going over the ECU thing now, not a simple matter that! So, things like adding cars hasn&#39;t been on the front burner. I think it IS a good idea though, but I&#39;m not sure if we&#39;ll see a big turnout just because they are listed.

But that doesn&#39;t really matter, as long as we build a framework, the opportunity will exist for people to race the cars. If they don&#39;t, at least we know it&#39;s not because they didn&#39;t know that they could, LOL.

The issue with classing the cars is really one of accurate information. If the cars can be presented with a good set of specs, and those specs can be backed up easily, it&#39;s no big deal. The slowdown occurs when it gets tabled for more research because of missing info, or controversial info.