16v Cars

[Greg Amy]

Chris, I got the same response a year or so ago when I stated it would take $15k minimum to build a pointy-end Spec Miata; nowadays the entry price for a winning SM is double that.

I can respect your opinion, but I place you firmly in the "Dave Gran Camp" of "what it takes to race", not "what it takes to win everything". There's nothing - absolutely nothing - wrong with that attitude, either.

But, there's just NO WAY you can build a nationally-competitive ARRC-winning ITA car for much less than that. Even if you bought one ready to go, there's going to be a lot of work to do. The ONLY way you can do it is if you possess ALL the skills for building a race car and can do it yourself: welding, fabrication, engine builds, transmission builds, chassis development, have the equipment to bust and balance your own tires, you own an engine dyno, you own a shock dyno, etc. And that's only if you put ZERO value on your time; well, if you have all this equipment and skills then you're a genius and you simply can't do that!

Are you like that? Not me! Know anyone like that that's willing to build it for you for free? Please send me their contact info...!

On the way home from Atlanta we bantered about what it would take to replicate the NX2000, given what we know now. We figured out that it would take approximately $13-15,000 just in car, rebuldable engines and trans, performance and replacement parts, supplies, and sublet work (machine work, final welding, etc). And that's with zero value on anyone's time. And that's with everything already figured out. It doesn't take a math wiz to figure out that we've "invested" (hah!) a hell of a lot more than that.

Smart? Hardly. Worth it? Well, this week it is...don't know about next week, though

[shwah]

See I know what you are doing here.

Just when I feel like I have my B car ready to be competitive, and have started to think about a future FProd effort, you are trying to draw me into ITA by saying it can't be done :P . I love a challenge, and it would be tempting to make a move that lets me re-use so many components and spares.

FWIW - I am not in any way satisfied with just being out there. I just keep reminding myself that running the past few years with a used stock motor was making me a better driver, allowing me to focus on chassis setup, and keep hoping that I made myself good enough in the process to justify the motor build taking place this winter. It takes time to get there, and I hope I am getting closer, but IMO you race to win or don't bother. If the new family dynamic allows (new baby due March, #2!) I hope to be measuring how much farther I have to go at Road Atlanta next fall.

I don't doubt that your effort was a costly one, but there is a huge difference between making an 'oddball' competitve and making a known quantity competitive. I have an honest $5-6k in my car. It is under weight, has exactly the gearbox I want, has exactly the cage I want, has the suspension I want and is waiting on the engine I need as well as the 'right' tires. Development never stops but I expect to have an all out ITB car under me by the end of next season for less than $10k. I don't see how running the same car with a differnt engine (needs to be a different shell due to VIN but the are the same thing) adds $15k to the mix.

Of course I may also post back here next winter to report that we have an honest $15k into the mix to be competitve. Time will tell.

[Greg Amy]

I honestly, truly, sincerely wish the best in that effort. In fact, prove it can be done and I may be back in the VWoA camp!

But this racing stuff is pure EVIL! Man, if I could be a future-Stan and travel back 5 years, and say, "Dude! You're gonna win the ARRC one year! Great job!! And *this* is what you're gonna spend in money, time, effort, and mental abuse to get there!" I'd go back and slap myself more-stupid or something like that...

Evil. Pure evil.

[shwah]

Agreed, pure evil

Didn't mean to imply that I would go win the ARRC. But that IS the goal in doing this IMO. If you don't set the target, you are unlikely to hit it. I expect to have a very capable car, and go down to have some hard lessons taught to me next year. No other way to find out where I stand.