Keep Old Seat or Get Another?

[lateapex911]

Yes, but WHY does an FIA seat lose it's certification after 5 years in FIA competition???

Is it because the compounds used to make it age into a failure mode? I doubt it.

Is it because the FIA feels that 5 years is enough time for the condition to degrade due to the ravages of time and wether and use have rendered it unsafe?? I doubt it...

Or is it a business issue?

[charrbq]

My mony says business. Does Bernie Ecclestone have a piece of the action?

[JIgou]

OK, let me throw this out in the seat discussion and gather some thoughts. (Y'all can tell me we're nuts if you want....)

A local racer and I have had this conversation over beer a couple of times. He used to race formula cars, so he's kinda into this concept.

What if one were to buy a basic Kirkey (or other similar simple aluminum shell seat) in a two-sizes-too-big-for-the-driver size, then do a true, full-on bead seat insert in that aluminum shell.

As I see it:

Advantages:
* Shock absorbing (if using the correct beads)
* Custom, exact fit
* Can swap inserts for co-drivers, giving both excellent fit

Disadvantages:
* Not FIA, so would need back <strike>breaker</strike> brace
* Not much cheaper than, say, a Momo Start
* Not the cleanest thing in the world to create
* Lack of shoulder support, depending on the model

Any other thoughts or concerns?

Jarrod

[lateapex911]

It&#39;s a cool idea. I had thought about mentioning a similar concept up the thread, but instead of the kirky, I was going to suggest that for teh enduro minded, they get the Recaro as Kirk has, and have the inserts made to fit the smaller drivers.

[tom_sprecher]

I came from Formula beginnings and like the concept. Some guys use bead seats (if there is no easy way to "panel" the inside of the frame) and others use foam over aluminum panels that form a simple seat.

Bead seats are kinda messy, ugly and don&#39;t hold up well but if done right you can not move.

Kirkey&#39;s can be had that have more support wing thingies (industry term) that you can imagine (at a price). That Recaro looks pretty sweet though.

What about how to mount, either fixed or adjustable? Mine was adjustable but at 6&#39;2" it was all the way back to the main hoop. The seat racks did not hold up at all, they&#39;re trashed.

Thanks,

[Knestis]

If you&#39;ve got a driver who&#39;s too small for the Recaro I have, he (or she?) is also going to need blocks taped to the pedals...

We used to do urethane foam seats in the formula cars and sports racers, back in my formative years, using garbage bags and stuff from a marine supply place. They worked great, if you could come up with a way to cover them. Using an aluminum seat wouldn&#39;t be an awful way to box in the foam.

However, part of the reason that the FIA answer works is that the seat is NOT rigid. When I rolled the Golf, I could FEEL the seat moving around - and a Recaro bucket is a stiff MF.

K

[ddewhurst]

***What if one were to buy a basic Kirkey (or other similar simple aluminum shell seat) in a two-sizes-too-big-for-the-driver size, then do a true, full-on bead seat insert in that aluminum shell.

Any other thoughts or concerns?

Disadvantages:***

The two sizes larger seat wouldn&#39;t fit in your Spec Miata.............

Sorry Jarrod, I had to do it.
David

[Daryl DeArman]

I just replaced my seat in my formula car with a Pennon bead seat. For open wheelers a Pennon or BaldSpot type seat is the best there is. Neither is a messy proposition. The expanding foam two part foams are another story in both mess and safety.

In a production type car where you have the room to allow for a seat design that will absorb impact over a larger distance, it has got to be a good thing provided that larger distance doesn&#39;t allow contact with something. In a formula car you simply don&#39;t have the room to allow for a seat to flex or deform much.

[JIgou]

***What if one were to buy a basic Kirkey (or other similar simple aluminum shell seat) in a two-sizes-too-big-for-the-driver size, then do a true, full-on bead seat insert in that aluminum shell.

Any other thoughts or concerns?

Disadvantages:***

The two sizes larger seat wouldn&#39;t fit in your Spec Miata.............

Sorry Jarrod, I had to do it.
David
[/b]

Details such as these are ignored at the moment. We&#39;re in the conceptual phase only....

One of the issues that has come to my mind has been mentioned by both Daryl and Kirk - the fact that a true FIA seat can move and flex in an accident. The CORRECT type of bead seat (as opposed to simply carving the expanding foam you buy at Home Depot) gives a ton of support, but does compress and cushion in the event of an accident. But I can&#39;t imagine it will "give" as much as a carbon or fiberglass FIA shell.

So.

I&#39;m starting to think that, even in the relatively cramped quarters of a Miata, an FIA seat may be the wiser choice. The implementation is certainly more straightforward.

Provided, of course, it fits - right David?

Jarrod

[Greg Amy]

Miata? Oh, hell, that makes the decision even easier.

I installed a Momo Start in my SM, and a few others I helped build. The width of the Miata factory sliders is EXACTLY the same as the width of the fastener inserts in the Start. What this mean is that you can remove the sliders from your factory seat, simply BOLT THEM ON to the Start, and bolt the seat into the car.

I tried this in a &#39;90, &#39;91, and &#39;94, and they all fit.

Because I&#39;m 6&#39;1", one modification I did was remove the rear pads from the floorboard, bend the rear slider mount tab slightly, and bolt the rear slider mounts through the floor using some steel backup pads. That way I got about 2" more headroom and a little more tilt-back. With the Kessler cage (http://www.kakashiracing.com/forsale/sm.html) even a big guy like me fit perfectly fine...

FIA homologated, bolt-in installation, $275 shipped from LTBMotorsports (http://www.ltbmotorsport.com/start.html); it just don&#39;t get any easier than that! - GA

[jlinfert]

New seat, Chief.

Momo sells an FIA-approved seat, the Start, for a great price, at LTBMotorsport.com.
[/b]

I&#39;m in total agreement here Great Seat! Very Comfortable. ANd Louis at LTB does Have a KILLER price.

[tom_sprecher]

Here&#39;s what I have seen so far.

The Recaro is a beauty with lots of lateral support but at almost $1500 is too rich for my wallet.

The Momo START is FIA, light and at $275 is a bargin, but judging solely by the pictures appears to have no more lateral support than my old Corbeau.

Then there&#39;s the Ultra-Shield Deluxe Road Race Seat or the Ultra-Shield Lightweight Road Race Seat with Halo for another $158. The bonus on this seat is I can get it local and hope to be able to actually sit in one and can get either one at a considerable discount from Discovery Parts.

I also saw the Cobra Evolution in the recent SportsCar and actually it looks more like the Recaro in the above picture than the same on any website. I guess Recaro changed the design of the SPG. Unfortunately, the Cobra is out of my price range as well.

I&#39;m still looking, really appreciate all of your help and hope to see some of you at the ARRC. Maybe I can sit in some seats and see what they&#39;re like.

Thanks,

[Greg Amy]

Tom, come find us. My NX has a Start, Jeff&#39;s SatURN has a really nice Recaro Racer SP-G, and Joe&#39;s got something different as well. Between all the NE guys you should be able to get a good flavor or options and some good butt-testing. - GA

[JLawton]

The Recaro is a beauty with lots of lateral support but at almost $1500 is too rich for my wallet.

[/b]

Agreed. I don&#39;t have the cash to buy one either but fortunately it came with the car. If I ever sell the car, I&#39;m taking the Recaro out to keep and putting in a cheap one!!

As Greg said, feel free to stop buy. But I hope you don&#39;t have a problem finding me with all the Saturn&#39;s that are going to be there!!