Interior removal questions

[ddewhurst]

Jake, rule discussion is Fun as long as those involved DON’T use their selective response tools. I had asked you in a post within another thread relative to what your ITAC friend used to adjust the rear camber of his 2nd gen RX-7 & you DIDN’T respond. Please play nice & answer that question first………………

Second, within our most current rule discussion I need to DISAGREE with your understanding of 2007 rules GCR-304 item f. & g.

***Now, the bins are located in the cargo area, correct?***

What you call bins is officially called “storage box” by Mazda micro-fish.

I would call the area FORWARD of the leading edge of the flat floor under the hatch area the passenger area including any lighted, latched hinged door “storage box” that is normally used by a passenger/driver from the passenger/driver area.

***The bin bottoms are made of carpet, so they come off under the second.*** (second half of the rule)

g. Any removable covers used to cover spare tires, tools, bins. ect. may be removed along with attaching hardware and bracketry. Carpets, mats, and their insulating or attaching materials may be removed from the floor and recesses of the cargo/ trunk/ spare tire area.

The bin/ "storage box" bottoms are NOT made of carpet. The bin bottoms are made as an inclusive part of the “storage box” separate of the carpet. The “storage box” has it’s own individual part number.

***The bin covers come off as part of the first half of the rule.***

f. below would be the first half of the rule correct.

f. Carpets, center counsels, floor mats, headliners, sun roof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and their insulating, attaching or operating mechanisms may be removed.

So far the rule ^ says NOTHING about “storage box” covers or “storage box”.

f. All other interior trim panels, except the dashboard, may be removed.

Still the rule ^ says NOTHING about “storage box” covers or “storage box”.

f. Other than to provide for installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, NO other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted.

I added the third part of rule ^ f. and there is sill nothing specified about a “storage box” covers or a “storage box”.

Now I need to complete this illegal “storage box cover/ “storage box” removal communication by saying that it is also illegal to remove the formed sheet metal that is screwed to the chassis that the “storage box” mounts to with screws. If anyone thinks it is legal to remove the formed sheet metal please provide the rule.

***Mr tech inspector Greg, how do you think the average tech guy would rule...or how would you rule?***

I welcome continued discussion of this illegal “storage box” cover/”storage box” removal with anyone who would like to use the rules as written in the GCR and the OEM names of the identified parts.

Hey, I’m learning as we discuss because the second 1st gen car that I am now building has the “storage box” & formed sheet metal removed. From my most recent reading/understanding of the f. & g. rules the car is ILLEGAL.

Have Fun
David


***Define Bracketry? Does the weld nut on the floor count as attaching hardware?....... ***

Rabbit07, are you allowed to remove the spare tire nut that most times has a metal capture cover welded over the nut? Are you allowed to removed the car lifting jack bracktery that is welded to to the chassis ? Are you allowed to remove other welded to the chassis nuts/brackets that are used to hold other OEM piece parts in place?

[raffaelli]

The GCR definition of the dash regards instruments and gauges. That definition would exclude the glove box from being considered the dash. ( I think).
[/b]

The way that I read it is the that dash (differed to as an instrument panel per definitions in the rule book) is used to hold gauges and controls in place. Unless the glove box contains a gauge or instrument, or holds an instrument or control in place, I don't see how it can considered part of the dash. Therefore, I think it can be removed.

However, I have reached out to SCCA for some guidance. While this kind of discussion is great fun and food for thought, and very much appreciated, it ia always better to have the opinion of the authority having jurisdiction. I run into this sort of thing all the time in the office (architect readng code all the time).

[Z3_GoCar]

....
f. All other interior trim panels, except the dashboard, may be removed.

Still the rule ^ says NOTHING about “storage box” covers or “storage box”.
....
[/b]

Gee seems like it would fit as an interior trim panel, which would be a catch all for anything that's not part of the dash. Actually, what's the difference between a "storage box," a "storage bin," and just a "bin?" Josh, probably the best advice is to talk to your regional stewards. My gut would be to remove it along with the kick panels. These boxes are a know failure point as they were designed for a much lighter box than mandated by DOT. If they're known to fail on a street car, how distracting would it be to have it slamming open while racing?

James

[ddewhurst]

***Gee seems like it would fit as an interior trim panel, which would be a catch all for anything that's not part of the dash.***

James, my posts are with reference to the two "storage boxs" & formed sheet metal which is attached to the chassis.

With reference to your comment above please read the definition in the GCR Glossary for trim. "Coverings or attachments whose function is soley cosmetic". Is a cover a trim panel when the covers function is to hide stuff & keep that stuff in the box/bin from flying around the inside of the passemger compartment?

***These boxes are a know failure point as they were designed for a much lighter box than mandated by DOT. If they're known to fail on a street car, how distracting would it be to have it slamming open while racing?***

If you are refering ^ to the 1st gen Mazda RX-7 please provide the facts.

Have Fun
David

[Z3_GoCar]

***Gee seems like it would fit as an interior trim panel, which would be a catch all for anything that's not part of the dash.***

James, my posts are with reference to the two "storage boxs" & formed sheet metal which is attached to the chassis.

With reference to your comment above please read the definition in the GCR Glossary for trim. "Coverings or attachments whose function is soley cosmetic". Is a cover a trim panel when the covers function is to hide stuff & keep that stuff in the box/bin from flying around the inside of the passemger compartment?

***These boxes are a know failure point as they were designed for a much lighter box than mandated by DOT. If they're known to fail on a street car, how distracting would it be to have it slamming open while racing?***

If you are refering ^ to the 1st gen Mazda RX-7 please provide the facts.

Have Fun
David
[/b]

David,

I have no direct knoledge of the Rx-7 situation; however, if said bins or boxes were detachable plastic as they are in most cars then it'd seem like a no brainer to remove ala interior trim panel.

As for the second point, I was addressing Josh's question on the glove box that's part of the kick panel. The one on my street car is in the process of self opening due to the weight of the DOT mandated box being too heavy for the plastic support. I suspose the irony of the DOT mandating a heavier glove box latch for safety's sake resulting in a box that eventually cracks open due to fatigue in the support. Then having said box in a race car where the vibration will lead to an even quicker failure isn't easily imparted.

James

[ddewhurst]

***With reference to your comment above please read the definition in the GCR Glossary for trim.

Glossary-Trim: Coverings or attachments whose function is soley cosmetic.

Is a cover a trim panel when the covers function is to hide stuff in the box/bin from flying around the inside of the passemger compartment?***

***I have no direct knoledge of the Rx-7 situation; however, if said bins or boxes were detachable plastic as they are in most cars then it'd seem like a no brainer to remove ala interior trim panel.***

I said, you said & I'll try again. We'll agree maybe that the storage box cover may be removed as a bin cover. & no it's not a (in your words) no brainer to remove ala interior trim panel when WE use the glossary & the rules. A trim panel by glossray definition is "whose function is soley cosmetic" & the cover is more than cosmetic. To continue there is NO rule that allows removal of the storage box/bin.

Have Fun
David

[mustanghammer]

***With reference to your comment above please read the definition in the GCR Glossary for trim.

Glossary-Trim: Coverings or attachments whose function is soley cosmetic.

Is a cover a trim panel when the covers function is to hide stuff in the box/bin from flying around the inside of the passemger compartment?***

***I have no direct knoledge of the Rx-7 situation; however, if said bins or boxes were detachable plastic as they are in most cars then it'd seem like a no brainer to remove ala interior trim panel.***

I said, you said & I'll try again. We'll agree maybe that the storage box cover may be removed as a bin cover. & no it's not a (in your words) no brainer to remove ala interior trim panel when WE use the glossary & the rules. A trim panel by glossray definition is "whose function is soley cosmetic" & the cover is more than cosmetic. To continue there is NO rule that allows removal of the storage box/bin.

Have Fun
David
[/b]

Not that I really want to jump in here...but. I am in the process of putting an 85 RX7 on the street and have been trying to replace broken bin parts. On this car the cover and the bin are one piece. You cannot remove one without the other as the lid, the trim, the latch, the mount and the upper parts of the bin are a single molded item.

It is an interesting question howver I have have yet to see an IT RX7 that still has the bins or their frame work intact. This includes the one I have that was built in 95 and a whole bunch of cars that raced in the ARRC.


Have more fun!

[ddewhurst]

Scott, interesting info about the hinge being an inclusive part of the cover/box. Forgot about that.........

***This includes the one I have that was built in 95 and a whole bunch of cars that raced in the ARRC.***

This ^ is just like me seeing & saying that at this years Runoffs there were many cars with illegal roll cages & none of it means stink untill a protest is filed.

[lateapex911]

Jake, rule discussion is Fun as long as those involved DON'T use their selective response tools. I had asked you in a post within another thread relative to what your ITAC friend used to adjust the rear camber of his 2nd gen RX-7 & you DIDN'T respond. Please play nice & answer that question first………………
[/b]

sigh.............Rules discussions are fun eh? Well, if you say so. My "ITAC friend"? I assume (yechhh) you mean Mr. Bettencourt. How would I know what he's done under his car? He doesn't OWN his car anymore, and hasn't for years now. I've never been under his, or any FOM car, or any second gen ITS car for that matter. So, I don't know.

Second, within our most current rule discussion I need to DISAGREE with your understanding of 2007 rules GCR-304 item f. & g.

[/b]

Correct. We disagree. I find the passenger area to be where the people go, and the cargo are to be where the stuff goes. The bins are behind the back of the seats, and people put stuff in them. Behind the seats is, in my book, the cargo area. The bins in question could be called "Komprtmnts" in a Skoda parts manual. Who cares? They are cheesy bins with plastic tops that have one peice molded plastic hinges attached to a plastic ring, with no bottom. The bottom is formed by some carpet like material, or resin impregnated felt, and the whole bunch of it is screwed to some thin stamped metal brackets which are screwed to the chassis.

To my reading of the rule, it's perfectly legal to remove, and I provided my reasons in my earlier post.

So we disagree. Fine.

Why not protest someone to find out what the techs think? Plenty of cars to choose from.........

That's it from here.

[ddewhurst]

***Why not protest someone to find out what the techs think? Plenty of cars to choose from.........***

As long as the 1st gen RX-7 car/driver weighs 2280 pounds I could care less. As I stated previously neither of my 1st gen's had the passenger storage box.