Fiero

[dominojd]

Jeff - what kind of numbers is Crazy Joe laying down? I don't think he hits the site as regularly as us online addicts.
[/b]

No I work for a living. :P

If I had numbers on the car I would let you know. Haven't even dynoed it since the new motor went in last year. I am assuming now that I am running the same ECU and header/exhaust combo as the Mayor of IT (Greg). I would assume the numbers would be pretty damn close to his. If not he must be a cheatin bastard.

Love ya greggy poo

[JLawton]

I am assuming now that I am running the same ECU and header/exhaust combo as the Mayor of IT (Greg). I would assume the numbers would be pretty damn close to his. [/b]

Joe,
Just cause you took your motor to Billy Bob's machine shop doesn't mean you're getting the same power as a Kessler engine. Having run with both of you (way too much...), you need to get off Fantasy Island!!

Or maybe you just suck!!!

[benspeed]

DANM - can't wait to watch the Joe/Jeff battle this weekend!

If I was a politician I'd be called the biggest flip flopper in the election to race ITA. The emprical rational side of my brain continues to tell me to dump this car recognizing that it has a very serious motor effort done and it isn't making the numbers to win. It is fat at 2600 pds. It has one of the crappiest suspensions under it produced.

Talked to several builders about the car - every single one of them said "turn back!" You are throwing good money after bad.

A great analogy was that my buds here online would be the same guys telling me at 2AM to go hit on the fat chick at the bar.......

[JeffYoung]

If I recall correctly, a lot of people told Greg the same thing about the NX.

Your power numbers are close to where they need to be (admittedly down some, but not much and there is still ECU tuning to do), and 5-10 hp is probably not going to make the difference once you max out the suspension program and get close to the front. You may have class leading torque and this is not to be underestimated. You've got good aero, and a good basis for handling (mid-engine). I don't know much about the suspension, but can't see how it could be much worse in stock form than a 1st Gen RX7, and those can be made to handle just fine. So too could your car, I am sure.

What I have learned in my 3+ years of developing an oddball is that you will not be fast out of the box. There will be MANY, MANY times you want to quit when things repeatedly go wrong. YOu will have to create solutions for problems that are solved by the off shelf kits on other cars. You will have people laugh at your efforts, and tell you to buy [car of the day] and race it.

It sure is fun though when everything you built yourself starts working and you start beating some of those folks.

Just looking at your numbers, again, you put that car on a tighter course with straights that top in the 100 to 115 mph range and it could be a winner. Down here, we have two tracks like that CMP and Barber, don't know what you have your way, but a torque monster at those types of places places can give low torque cars fits.

[Gary L]

If I was a politician I'd be called the biggest flip flopper in the election to race ITA. The emprical rational side of my brain continues to tell me to dump this car recognizing that it has a very serious motor effort done and it isn't making the numbers to win. It is fat at 2600 pds. It has one of the crappiest suspensions under it produced.

Talked to several builders about the car - every single one of them said "turn back!" You are throwing good money after bad.

A great analogy was that my buds here online would be the same guys telling me at 2AM to go hit on the fat chick at the bar....... [/b]

I think you are listening too much to the "turn back" crowd. I agree with Jeff... IMO, on the right courses, this car absolutely has the potential to be a winner in ITA. I'm not sure it doesn't have the same potential on any course, but that's probably dependent upon some more engine development. In any case, you may have read this before, but I feel I have to repeat the story of what I accomplished at Hallett with my '88 GT daily driver.

The car has about 65k miles and I've owned it since new, so I know exactly what's stock and what isn't. We ran the car in 2004 at a few Hallett HST events with the following changes from stock:

- 15x7 Kosei (14 lb) wheels

- Used (many cycles) R3S04 205/50-15's all around

- A/C compressor and condensor removed

- Muffler removed (catalytic converter still intact)

- Orange (single adjustable) Koni's all around

- Chopped stock springs

That's it. No other tricks whatsoever... the engine has never been out of the car, in fact the valve covers have never been off the engine. No changes to the stock ECU or any of the related components or sensors. No real suspension development, it still has the stock bushings in place and stock front and rear anti-roll bars. With my 190 lb butt in the car, it weighed 2900. That's right... Two thousand nine hundred pounds. At the last event I ran (at 90+ F ambient temp), when traffic allowed, we ran consistent low 1:34's and an occasional high 1:33 on those worn out Hoosiers. That's just about 3 1/2 seconds above the ITA record, held by none other than Bob Stretch.

Stock engine, skinny tires, 300 pounds over minimum weight, 3 1/2 seconds from the lap record. Don't tell me this car doesn't have potential.

I simply couldn't bring myself to rip and strip what amounts to a very pristine example of the '88 GT, so I spent the better part of a year looking for a prepped '88 ITA car, or a suitably inexpensive donor. Didn't find one, and in the meanwhile, along came this ITB Volvo ready to race...

[m33mcg]

I went back and found one of offical grid sheets for Hallet. On 4-14-02 Bob in the 240sx ran a 1:29.86 at Hallet. Fastest time in group 1. The second fastest time was Arron Kelley in his ITS 200sx with a time of 1:32.96 With times in the 1:31- 1:33 (at Hallet)with limited prep is worth taking a look at.

I think my 944 project might change into the fiero project. Just love Hallet . Any one looking to trade a fiero for a 944?

[Gary L]

The current race lap record (AVRG apparently doesn't track/recognize qualifying records) in ITA is still Bob S. at 1:30.393, set last summer in his Miata. The race lap record at the time I was running the Fiero was also Bob's at 1:30.5 or so, but it was done in the Nissan.

As an aside, the current record will not last much longer, thanks to some repaving work done this past winter; the first truly quick ITA car that shows up is probably headed for the low 1:29's, at least. As an example, during the SCCA race weekend a couple of months ago, 4 or 5 SM cars went under the old class record of 1:31.1, they now have a 1:30.056 to shoot at. There were 3 or 4 other well established class records broken that weekend as well (including ITB, thank you very much :P ), and this was on a green (rain-washed) track.

[m33mcg]

I still believe your 1:30-1:33 time on used tires and limited prep is impressive. The second fastest ITA time was a crx at 1:37.80 that day. On a short track like Hallet a well developed Fiero would be strong. After sleeping on it, I decided to switch builds. I see more options with the Fiero and would be cheeper than the 944. The fastest 944 that day was 1:38.68

[JLawton]

A great analogy was that my buds here online would be the same guys telling me at 2AM to go hit on the fat chick at the bar.......
[/b]

And the problem with that is???.............

[benspeed]

So I spoke with a bunch of folks at LRP and many guys I respect a lot are still strongly believing this car can be a contender.

I spent some time yesterday running the car on my skidpad again with an accelerometer/g-force gizmo and compared it to my buds ZO6. Numbers were very good.

Looks like a programmable ECU upgrade and maybe a new set of headers to even up the HP and TQ. The project will move foreward - sticking with it. Watching the ITA race made me hungry.

Andy - I'm calling you for more info on the ECU stuff. Nice job winning the A race albeit a shortened one.

And the problem with that is???.............
[/b]

My hot blonde Swedish wife would beat the crap out of the fat chick

[lateapex911]

Ben, Ben, Ben....that last line...there is SO much I could do with that. But I like you, and this isn't THAT kind of forum...

You have a skidpad!? jeez...I can't even start my car without receiving another heaping of hate from my neighbors!.....

[JLawton]

You have a skidpad!? [/b]

Forget the group dyno session, let's all go to Ben's for the day for some suspension tuning!!

[dominojd]

DANM - can't wait to watch the Joe/Jeff battle this weekend!

[/b]

Wasn't much of a battle. :P

Joe,
Just cause you took your motor to Billy Bob's machine shop doesn't mean you're getting the same power as a Kessler engine. Having run with both of you (way too much...), you need to get off Fantasy Island!!

Or maybe you just suck!!!
[/b]

Shit Billy Bob has been building engines longer than Kesslar has been alive. :P

So what if I suck, What's it to you?

[iambhooper]

Ben... a skid pad, that's too much! I agree with Jake... my yuppie @$$#0!& neighbors happiest day in 3 years, was the day I moved the car to the shop permenately.

Sometimes, I dream of getting a new toy just to get under their skin

hoop

p.s.
i'm still trying to dig up my ecu connections.

[ScotMac]

In the vein of the original intent of this thread, i have just picked up a ITB fiero (2.5l duke) and am going to be racing it in NWRegion and SanFranRegion. Just finished class and have 1st novice race July 13-15.

Would love to know what people have done to successfully allow the car to beat the VW's and Volvo's in ITB.

It appears that the most success was acheived by Michael Braidman in the indiana region (ITB track record, beat all but one *ITA* car, "road racer of the year" for indiana region). Does anyone know how to contact him, or what he has done to the car?

I have a bit of body roll (and associated fender rub) and am looking at upgrading the shocks. Any suggestions? The koni's look too expensive, but the kyb's look nice (look under suspension->shocks here).

Is a gas or knob adjustable shock recommended? I actually really like the qa1 double adjustables (knob)...but talk about expensive. Has anyone used them on a fiero?

Thanks, -Scot

[shwah]

As far as I know Braidman has only raced with us that one time, so I really don't know much about him or his setup. I hear that he normally ran with Midwest council. I know that he had some non-racing issues that kept him from the track for most of 2006.

I have had a few people that I told about that race swear that his car must have legality issues to be that much faster than the previous Blackhawk record (1+ second drop), but I am not willing to buy that without knowing more about the car and driver. As far as I am concerned he just had a well prepped car, that he knew how to drive well, on a day with fantastically fast conditions. I mean the 2nd place VW was just under the previous lap record, and I was a few tenths off with a less than full effort car.

If I bump into him again I will ask him if he can share some fast 4cyl Fiero knowledge with you guys.

[ScotMac]

Hey, just what we need one of those fast VW guys listening to steal our fiero secrets!!

Yes, please bombard Michael w/ whatever questions you can think of. I am surprised you said that he had not been racing for 2006...2006 was the year i was quoting when i said he won "road racer of the year":

http://www.inr-scca.org/roadrace.php

Guess that one race was enough for voting of "rr of the year"!!!

-Scot

[shwah]

I only saw him up our way once that year. Well duh - I guess I forgot about the CenDiv split into GL Div and CenDiv. He is in the former, so we probably won't see him too often.

I also want to clarify what I said in my post above - I in no way think his car was illegal. I was fast and well driven. With that day's conditions, it was just so fast that some folks that were not there were amazed that a Fiero was lapping so quickly in ITB trim.

If I bump into him, I will try to steer him to this forum so you folks can build more fast Fieros. More fast cars is more better IMO.

[Andy Bettencourt]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-Pontia...1QQcmdZViewItem

[88YB1]

Run from the garage screaming! If this guy spent 10K on this car he got shafted. Just from the photos you can see 1. passenger door bars do not intrude yet inner panel is missing. 2. Builder did not take advantage of removing the rear glass and welding cage to strut towers then install plexiglass rear window. Gets rid of a lot of weight. The panel that the rear tubes are welded to is not structural. It is thin sheet metal. 3. Stock strut towers. Rules permit slotting the mount holes to allow camber adjustment. 4. Race tires mounted on HEAVY HEAVY stock rims. 5. Does one put a boat load of money in an engine build and not paint the engine?

I'm in my third year of building and tuning, and I'm no way near 10K.

Chuck