Fiero

[benspeed]

Hi Chuck - sent you a PM.

I put a cold air intake with a long tube all the way to the air intake port - kinda cool - you can hear that thing drawing air while you drive - maybe another hp there. This hiss at idle scares children and pets.

The motor shop did all they could per the GCR. I need to find a new dyno guy since my regular dyno guy is shut down for the rest of the winter - he's got an outside trailerable dynojet.

If anybody has a dyno shop near Northern NJ that's noted for quality timing, A/F tuning please post.

Put a call into the LSD shop and left a VM - I'll post what I learn. I will put my $$ into the suspension bits first before an LSD.

Some of the feedback I've been getting from Koni is 400 lbs springs on these cars in the rear - 400-500 for the front. I haven't found anything on the web from racers running these spring rates so I'm not sure what to make of that info. Also not sure my Koni reds are where I want to be - shit you can buy new stuff for the cost of the re-valve on these. (No JRZ shocks at $800 per revalve for the set every 8-10 races - been there done that. ) I have coil overs and 10 inch 400 lb springs for the rear off another car that I want to use and plan on buying 400 lb spring for the front - but I'm keen to get any feedback on this setup. Are the KYB shocks worth considering? Price too good to be true...

PS - the stock car is nearly ready too - clutch conversion to 7.25 disks nearly done. New tires mounted and ready to burn rubber.

[latebrake]

I think there are a lot of non-metal body parts on these cars. is there any need/help to dip one or is it gong to melt the car away? i am lazy and did the sound/weight removal the hard way once and swore it would never happen again.

Lawrence

[benspeed]

OK Folks - the ITA Fiero project is moving into the final phase. The third custom exhaust is now on its way to me - we think this will get us to the magic dyno number that triggers the cage installation. All other parts are assembled and ready. Is there an outstanding chassis guy in the NJ/NY area who is familiar with these cars that y'all might suggest I do the final setup with?

Car was over 140 HP at the wheels last trip to the dyno with some A/F fiddling and lots of debate amongst engineers wiser than I. They have it a little lean which will bear watching. Much chip fiddling. Much cash flowing....

I wont post the torque - HAHAHAHAHAHA! It is sick.

Stock car is shined and ready for Summit Point this weekend - can't wait to hit the track.

[iambhooper]

You need to get that thing finished and bring it down to VIR for the double in 2 weeks. I'm dieing to see the results of this car. Whose exhaust have you tried (or have you made all of them)?

as for suspensions... Kickhill Fieros in Lebanon, Ct might be able to point you in a direction of someone to help with setup. http://www.kickhill.com/fiero.html and then theres this http://www.waynesfieros.com/

Best of luck and keep usinformed.

[JeffYoung]

Ben that is great work. 140 hp and more torque than 140??? Damn good. You might even crush the Egg!

[JLawton]

You might even crush the Egg!
[/b]

It's not just about the car.

[benspeed]

Thanks for the tips for chassis setup guys - sent them some emails.

I had two exhausts made locally - one had too little back pressure and the car was blowing flame - single pipe - just backfired and not good. It was a waste of $$.

The second was a bigger single pipe with a dynoflow muffler - solved backpressure and spitting problem but just wasn't to my liking, hung way too low - but it did dyno well. I figure one curb and its gone.

This last exhaust is from a shop in Las Angeles that has experience racing Fieros - it's a dual exhaust with no muffler - 2.5 inches and I have some super trapps and mini muffler tips that I can use if it's too loud. It will have a much cleaner fit and finish - just hope it will put out the numbers. The owner of the shop liked our joint design enough that he is building one for his race car.

Sorta wish I had this ready for the Twilight Enduro at Pocono - that is going to be a serious race.

[JamesB]

Wow man, good deal. I cant wait to see it on the track. Come find us in the woods this weekend. You cannot miss the orange glow of matts car or the lighted palm tree in our paddock.

[iambhooper]

it wasnt Chris West, in Cali, was it? they have a lot of experience modding fiero's. one exhaust design that some people have tried is similar to the old Camero exhaust (where the pipes wrap around and fold on each other... don't know any better way to describe it). however you have to remove the trunk to allow that to fit. i wouldnt go any larger than 2.5" on any exhaust. there isnt much to route and you loose a lot off top end. did you make headers, or use existing ones?

what "joint design" are you talking about?

[88YB1]

Ben, Those are very good power numbers. With the Fiero average of 18% driveline loss that would be about 165 crank HP. With a fully developed chassis you should be very competative.

Chuck

[benspeed]

Well, put the new exhaust on the car and it feels like it has more torque and runs much healthier. Brought it to a different dyno - both were dynojets. I am down in the low 130's now. New exhaust is a much superior product - factory type fit. It was built by the West Coast Fiero guys. Can't see that hurting - only helping.

Anybody experience significant differences across two dynos of the same make? My regular guy was out of town and nobody could do it so I went someplace else. I'll hit the regular dyno after the Pocono race.

Any ideas?

[lateapex911]

Simply, yes. Dynos are all over the board. Even same brands. Find a Dynapak and stick with it. (the more variables you can eliminate, the better, and the Dynapak is hub driven, and doesn't "derive" the HP via some algorithm. Get Greg Amy started on this one, and you'll never forget it, LOL. Greg, care to post a link?)

[zenbutcher]

I'm currently using some WCF shorty headers. Might switch to the equal length racing headers, but am definitely concerned about the heat generated from them, and clearance. What do you think? I don't want to melt all in the engine compartment.


Peter Baumgartner
ITA Fiero

[Ron Earp]

Find a dyno and stick with THAT particular dyno and location.

Opinons about dynos abound. I've found through trial and error if I stick with the same dyno and location things work out better with respect to tuning and relative numbers. I could care less about the absolute figure, just the relative differences between tuning changes.

R

[lateapex911]

ANd, to take what Ron said further, have a high degree of confidence in your operator, and their fanatical consistency. If you can always have a baseline setup, and go back to that during testing, you will be assured the dyno is consistent.

To that end, choosing a dyno that eliminates variables, like the Dynapac, will reduce the possibilities of errors. If you must use a roller inerta dyno, be sure to use the same tires, and the same pressures, as they will throw the numbers off if inconsistent. Same for diffs, transmissions and of course, the fluids within, unless you're testing lubricants. Finally, make some informed desicion regarding what you will use as your standard deviation...in other words, if the dyno can't repeat exact numbers with exactly equal conditions, how much of a difference will be needed in your readings before it is "significant" or can be attributed to the change you made?

[benspeed]

I'll definitely be back at my regular dyno guys place to see what the deal is. Bruce is very religious in process so he keeps a very consistent setup - just as you suggest jake - I'll make sure tire are pressured the same-no other changes but the exhaust when I go back.

Does sound as if there can be some big differences across machines.

I'm currently using some WCF shorty headers. Might switch to the equal length racing headers, but am definitely concerned about the heat generated from them, and clearance. What do you think? I don't want to melt all in the engine compartment.
Peter Baumgartner
ITA Fiero
[/b]

I've got some longer tube custom headers that were built by a shop in CT for the original owner - don't remember the name. The heat is up there but nothing to be concerned about. Run the 160 thermostat to help.

[shwah]

The Dyno-Dynamics machines are also in the 'better' group of dynos. Similar to dynapac they are true load dynos, and allow tuning at WOT at any rpm, as well as making a 'run' through the range. They do include the added variable of wheels/tires in the equation though.

I do all of my runs on a dynapac, but will be doing the initial tune of my new motor on a dyno-dynamics, because that is what the builder has. As soon as everything is done, I will go back and re-run on the same dynapac to get a comparison to my old motor.

[lateapex911]

IIRC, Clayton dynos are another roller dyno, but with a load cel that can hold RPM for tuning.

[benspeed]

The BigSpeed ITA Fiero is at the final dyno test and tune in the capable hands of some pretty sharp engineers. The results will be the determining factor if the cage goes in. John Weisberg will be the guy who builds it if the car dynos well.

Results will be posted - good or bad. This is being done at my regular shop where we have baseline notes, baseline on the dyno. There is a solid amount of $$ invested and this car has a 9.5/10ths effort on the motor & 10/10ths on exhaust so this should be telling for anybody considering building one of these regarding power potential.

If results are good there is a very strong chance this car will see action before the NAARC runoffs.

Since Crazy Joe needs the points I'll be sure to torment Andy so he really has to work for that championship :P

[jcmotorsports]

Good choice on the cage builder. John built the cage in T3 S2000. He does a great job.