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Thread: ITR Boxster

  1. #1
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    OK - while I'm loving the SPO stock car I still miss running in IT so here's my idea. Boxsters can be found for $12-14K if you look hard. Thinking about buying one as a street ride and doing all the basic stuff for suspension, safety etc while driving it on the street and then dropping a cage, exhaust and all that and taking it ITR racing in a couple seasons.

    Question is what folks think about the competitiveness of the car and what the HP potential would be? Does anybody know a shop who has experience building out an SCCA Boxster?

    Cheers,

    Ben
    BenSpeed
    #33 ITR Porsche 968
    BigSpeed Racing
    2013 ITR Pro IT Champion
    2014 NE Division ITR Champion

  2. #2
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    That's a tough one. I think if you call Rick Deman at Deman Motorsports in Tarrytown, he might have a clue, at least in where to send you. The car is great out of the box, and essentially uses a 911 engine variant, so there should be SOME knowledge out there. But...Porsche guys, well, they like to throw money sometimes, and will just replace the whole motor before they will tweak what they'vegot.

    Also, Porsches generally don't have achilles heels..they don't yeild gobs of power with just a muffler change.
    I'd hit Pelicanparts.com and go to the BBS, look for info there on the track forum and the Boxster forum, and I'd call respected Porsche shops in the area, such as eman.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
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  3. #3
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    OK - while I'm loving the SPO stock car I still miss running in IT so here's my idea. Boxsters can be found for $12-14K if you look hard. Thinking about buying one as a street ride and doing all the basic stuff for suspension, safety etc while driving it on the street and then dropping a cage, exhaust and all that and taking it ITR racing in a couple seasons.

    Question is what folks think about the competitiveness of the car and what the HP potential would be? Does anybody know a shop who has experience building out an SCCA Boxster?

    Cheers,

    Ben [/b]


    Ben, I'd try Steinel's Autowerks in Twinsburg Ohio. I know that is kind of far but I would say they are the best source of info & setup. They have a 4 time National Technicial Winner (Mike Garriga) there. Just do a google search, you'll get the number. Tell them Dan Jones sent you.


  4. #4
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    Might want to give Speedsource a call. We ran the Boxter in Grand Am for quite a while with very good success. They were very reliable and should be a great car for the class.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  5. #5
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    Might want to give Speedsource a call. We ran the Boxter in Grand Am for quite a while with very good success. They were very reliable and should be a great car for the class. [/b]
    What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again!


  6. #6
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    What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again!
    [/b]
    They class the RX8 and I will be too. :P
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  7. #7
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    Too soon. But i expect some requests when it hits it's date mark, and if not i'll submit it myself. Any info on a race prepped renesis rotary could help get the classification right. I think there is a fear that the car will be an overacheiver like the 1st and 2nd gen RX 7s, but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  8. #8
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    Too soon. But i expect some requests when it hits it's date mark, and if not i'll submit it myself. Any info on a race prepped renesis rotary could help get the classification right. I think there is a fear that the car will be an overacheiver like the 1st and 2nd gen RX 7s, but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?
    [/b]
    Real world dyno sheets have already been provided. Letter is already written and am in the process of gathering the information to fill out proper VTS. We have enough years of running this motor in formula mazda that it should be a "no brainer" to hit the numbers. This car is close to maxed from the factory. Most people loose a few HP with a header. Check with Jeff Young if you need copies of the dyno runs.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  9. #9
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    but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?
    [/b]
    yea right <_<
    Fred Alphin
    "Big leisure money seeker"
    #92 Hankook Tire soon to be ITB? ITA?
    Damn economy...

  10. #10
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    The dyno sheets Steve provided show little gains for the Renesis over stock.

    I honestly think (and I have NO intention of building one) that the RX8 is a great fit for ITR. 240 or so stock hp, torque not great, good brakes and suspension, apparently only ok aero.

    I am writing a proposal this weekend for the car to send to the Mazda bunch, and we hope to get it in this year for approval in 2008.

    Me, I think Ron has me convinced that two 994S2s would be a good way to go for ITR -- in a few years. The TR8 is actually coming along quite nicely and in 07/08 want to see what I can do with that (with a hard top and a Dennis Shaw motor). BUt still that damn Jeff Young driver problem......
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  11. #11
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    I honestly think (and I have NO intention of building one) that the RX8 is a great fit for ITR. 240 or so stock hp, torque not great, good brakes and suspension, apparently only ok aero.

    [/b]
    So why is the e36 M3 such a overdog?? Same hp, little more torque, at best the same in brakes and suspension and I am sure the areo favors the RX8, if not a wash...
    Fred Alphin
    "Big leisure money seeker"
    #92 Hankook Tire soon to be ITB? ITA?
    Damn economy...

  12. #12
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    Real world dyno sheets have already been provided. Letter is already written and am in the process of gathering the information to fill out proper VTS. We have enough years of running this motor in formula mazda that it should be a "no brainer" to hit the numbers. This car is close to maxed from the factory. Most people loose a few HP with a header. Check with Jeff Young if you need copies of the dyno runs.
    [/b]
    Someone once told me that street cars NEVER come with optimized exhaust. Even if the Rx exhaust is optimized I&#39;d think the reason the aftermarket pipes reduce hp is to bolster torque to give a street driver that leaving the red light boost.

    Back to the original topic, I&#39;d love to see some boxters out there to run with

    James
    STU BMW Z3 2.5liter

  13. #13
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    One post on this and one post only. I&#39;ve always enjoyed your posts and discussions with you and don&#39;t want to get into a tit for tat.

    Anyone who has ever spent time in a BMW, or on the BMW boards KNOWS (and I owned an S52 M Coupe) that the S52 was underrated at 240 hp, and it also makes more torque than the Renesis. Also, the common knowledge from Mazda tuners -- which I freely admit I am accepting without debate at this point -- is that the Renesis is close to maxed out. What Bimmerworld or Sunbelt could do with the S52, I don&#39;t know, but I do know that the S52 guys could get more power under the curve with just a Conforti chip, and I bet there are far better header solutions than stock. If the increase in power is ony 50-75% of what the 2.5 saw from Sunbelt, then the M3 would be big trouble in ITR.

    Three final points:

    1. Ron and I were proponents of the E36 M3 in ITR. However, after hearing discussions from those with more technical expertise than me, I did come to agree it had the potential for being a class disruptor. I just don&#39;t see that with the RX8.

    2. It&#39;s not a given that the RX8 will be in. We&#39;ll make the proposal and see what happens, just like we will do with the V8 Mustangs and the 928.

    3. Isn&#39;t the 330i nearly as much car as the M3? That&#39;s the BMW I would watch out for. People forget it is only 15 hp (and equal torque?) down on the S52, in the slicker E46 body. THAT is the BMW that really scares me.

    Signing off this thread. Thanks guys.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  14. #14
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    So why is the e36 M3 such a overdog?? Same hp, little more torque, at best the same in brakes and suspension and I am sure the areo favors the RX8, if not a wash...
    [/b]
    A "little" more? The tq curve of the inline 6 is pretty darn good. I&#39;d like to see the stock tq curves side by side. The renisis is great from the factory..not much left on the table. Sure, there IS something left, but it is NOwhere near the gains we&#39;ve come to expect from rotaries, and probably it&#39;&#39;s even less than a conservative piston build.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  15. #15
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    Jeez, just asking..................

    If you could just find some 7k Boxster donors
    Fred Alphin
    "Big leisure money seeker"
    #92 Hankook Tire soon to be ITB? ITA?
    Damn economy...

  16. #16
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    Fred,

    ANY research on your part will find you the info on the RX-8 you need. I was the person who didn&#39;t want it in until we could verify the claims you are reading. Remember, this is a motor that was originally rated at 250hp, then downgraded to 238hp, and guess what? The 2007&#39;s are rated at 212hp and 159ftlbs with no changes. This rating is in line with off-the-shelf dyno &#39;complaints&#39; by owners. Place a call to SpeedSource and learn that their GAC cars don&#39;t make a ton of power. Check the GAC specs for these cars. The RX-8 is allowed to run at 2650, have a header, a 5.12 R&P and the Mazdaspeed Aero package while the 330&#39;s run at 2875 with little mods. The cars have proven equal this year in GAC competition. These guys have the data...

    The E36 M3 was excluded, not because it had the potential to disrupt the class, but because using the same process all the other cars had to go through, it would have to come in at around 3500lbs. That is just too much to make sense to anyone IMHO.

    A LITTLE MORE torque? 236ft/lbs @ 3800 compared to 159ft/lbs @ 5500. Come on Fred, the numbers are real, it&#39;s no conspiracy.

    On paper, ITR should be great with no overdogs. Being careful with the RX-8 is key to the success of ITR, hence the delay in its classification.

    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  17. #17
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    If I were thinking Porsche, I would be looking at 911 SCs. Light weight, lots of parts available and a smog era engine that should benefit significantly from IT prep. You can find them for your $7k price too if you look.

    I will stick with my VW for now, but I may just move to an ITR Porsche instead of a Production VW down the road.
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  18. #18
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    What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again!
    [/b]
    I&#39;ve been looking at 911 SC as a great choice also - had one for about 4 years in the 90&#39;s. Street trim was very quick when I ran LRP with PCA.

    Nobody really made a yeah or nay on the Boxster being really competitive - pit it agains the 330i and how would it do?

    Cheers,

    bp

    Hmmmmm - maybe that Speedsource prepped Boxster might be a sweet purchase.......

    PS - thanks for the shop leads. I will call them for info and ask they keep an eye out for a streetable then trackable 986.
    BenSpeed
    #33 ITR Porsche 968
    BigSpeed Racing
    2013 ITR Pro IT Champion
    2014 NE Division ITR Champion

  19. #19
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    If I were thinking Porsche, I would be looking at 911 SCs. Light weight, lots of parts available and a smog era engine that should benefit significantly from IT prep. You can find them for your $7k price too if you look.
    [/b]
    My thoughts on the 911SC are little gains to be had with CIS, headers will help some, adjustable cam timing a plus but engine will not see the 25% gains seen elsewhere. The T bar suspension also presents it own set of headaches. Massive oversteer may be a plus though....

    My .02 is Boxster or 968 is the P car way to go
    Fred Alphin
    "Big leisure money seeker"
    #92 Hankook Tire soon to be ITB? ITA?
    Damn economy...

  20. #20
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    I have a 911, and the T bar suspension isn&#39;t the worst thing. In IT rules, an SC could be made to handle. (And would be a dream to cornerweight!) And they brake pretty well. But honestly, I don&#39;t think that the engine will see the increase that the process expects it to. It&#39;s aircooled, and the CIS is a stranglepoint. I thought about it, just as I considered a 911E or 911S for ITS, but I think it will be a lot of work and money for a disappointing return.

    But I could be wrong!
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


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