what are you guys using?

[dazzlesa]

for a 20 foot or 24 foot enclosed trailer what do you need to pull it? 1500, 2500 or 3500 series?
5.4l or 6 liter or diesal? i also use it for work to run around nyc, so a overly stiff truck would be a pain in the ass.
gas mileage for gas compared to diesal?
also standard hitch or 5th wheel?
help???????????
rick

[Greg Amy]

Rick, I suggest you want something with torque. I pull my 24' enclosed with an earlier-version Ford V-10 van (which is derated versus the F-series) and it's "adequate"; I just don't see pulling that comfortably with a V-8. Within Ford, I suggest a later-model V10 or the Powerstroke diesel would be much preferred.

As for chassis, today's "-250" or "2500" (3/4 ton) is a very capable truck, comparable to commercial-grade stuff of a few years ago. Buy a 3/4 and I don't think you'll give up anything in terms of capacity to safely tow your 24-footer, plus the ride may be a bit better. You'll want the one-ton if you'll ever pull a multi-car trailer, but for a single-car 24-footer with 7,000-10,000 GVW the 3/4 is plenty truck.

Within Ford, the PS and the V10 are available in the 3/4- and 1-ton, but I don't think you can get either of those engines in the smaller -150 1/2-ton. My advice: buy the drivetrain of your choice first, then buy the appropriate truck to put around it.

Tagalong versus fiver/gooseneck: tagalong is fine for a 24' 7k-10k. If you want a fiver then you'll get more interior room (at a significantly higher price). However, my 24' enclosed tagalong has plenty of interior space, even with built-in cabinets.

GA

[BMW RACER]

When I bought my current tow vehicle I also needed it for us as a shop vehicle for shuttling cutomers around Los Angeles. I have a 20'box TPD tag trailer tag. I was looking for the biggest motor in the smallest vehicle. I've always liked Fords. So, I got a 2003 Ford F250 Extended cab, short bed Powerstroke and I love it! It's the same length overall as an Excursion, with the extended cab I can haul people (short distances) and secure stuff.

It gets 12-15 MPG around town. 18-20 on the highway. Towing it gets 12MPG. A friend borrowed my trailer and towed it with his F250 V10 and the BEST he got was 6.5MPG!

The deisel has torque up the you know what! This thing will pull my fully loaded trailer up the Grapevine (A BIG long hill) at 70 mph with the cruise control set and the A/C on!

It's a little on the big side and it does ride like a truck, but it's managable.

When it comes to size, milage and towing capacity the F250 deisel is hard to beat.

[charrbq]

With an enclosed trailer of that size, regardless of the load inside, I wouldn't go with anything less that a 3/4 ton, or better, a 1 ton chassis. And nothing smaller than a 6 liter engine. Gm has a good 6 ltr V8, Ford a good 6 ltr V10, and Dodge a good 5.7ltr Hemi. Each has an excellent diesel. I tow my open trailer with a half ton GMC that it also my daily driver. I've tried towing an enclosed trailer with it...no good. Plenty of power, but you can feel the trailer beating up that light chassis all the way down the road. The bigger truck is rougher and more expensive to purchase/operate than the 1/2 ton, but it tows a larger load with style and grace.

By the way...you loose any room you might want for carrying/storage in the bed of a pickup if you tow with a fifth wheel, but my friends who tow with both a 5th and a tag along say the the 5th wheel is the best way to go.

[JoshS]

You'll want the one-ton if you'll ever pull a multi-car trailer, but for a single-car 24-footer with 7,000-10,000 GVW the 3/4 is plenty truck.
[/b]

Last year, we towed our 40' 2-car aluminum gooseneck (it's for sale, BTW) with a GMC diesel 1-ton dually.

But this year, we're pulling the same trailer, with two much heavier cars, with a GMC diesel 3/4-ton, and you know what? I like it a LOT better with this truck than with the dually.

The modern 3/4-ton diesels are amazing trucks.

[Jeremy Billiel]

But this year, we're pulling the same trailer, with two much heavier cars, with a GMC diesel 3/4-ton, and you know what? I like it a LOT better with this truck than with the dually.

The modern 3/4-ton diesels are amazing trucks.
[/b]

is the 3/4 Ton a Dually? If Not I am suprised. I would think a SRW truck wounldn't be a stable pulling that large trailer around.

[JoshS]

is the 3/4 Ton a Dually? If Not I am suprised. I would think a SRW truck wounldn't be a stable pulling that large trailer around.[/b]

It's an SRW. I don't think anyone sells a 3/4T dually. We did add higher capacity tires and air springs.

The ride is MUCH better than the dually was, and the rig is really stable (gooseneck, etc). Trailer weighs about 14K loaded, I think. Only 6K empty, which is very light for a trailer this big.

I think it's a really good trailer, which helps with stability, of course.

[Eric Parham]

I think the stability of a 5th wheel trailer is helped by the placement of the weight over all 4 wheels (much like a weight-distributing hitch with a tag). Thus, dually not needed unless hitch loading is going to be huge. Another advantage of a SRW truck over a dually is that it can run on the parkways in the NE (without the trailer, of course, and as long as properly plated). Add to that the original poster's NYC location and parking restrictions, and SRW looks like the much better choice.

As for me, after fighting tow-vehicle issues most of the year since I went from an open to a 24-ft enclosed, I finally coaxed my old Jeep 5.2L AWD V8 to pull at my desired speeds without overheating by deleting the AC condenser (well after upgrading to HD 3-core rad and cold stat). I never used the AC anyway. I really do love having an SUV as a tow vehicle. Anything larger or less powerful just wouldn't work out for me.

Gas mileages:
CC at 75: 17mpg
Normal Driving: 15mpg
Towing open: 14-15mpg
Towing enclosed: 6-8mpg (ouch)

[JoshS]

As for me, after fighting tow-vehicle issues most of the year since I went from an open to a 24-ft enclosed, I finally coaxed my old Jeep 5.2L AWD V8 to pull at my desired speeds without overheating by deleting the AC condenser (well after upgrading to HD 3-core rad and cold stat). I never used the AC anyway. I really do love having an SUV as a tow vehicle. Anything larger or less powerful just wouldn't work out for me.
[/b]

Wow, it would scare me to tow a 24' trailer (even an open one) with a wheelbase as short as a Jeep (any Jeep).

[Eric Parham]

Wow, it would scare me to tow a 24' trailer (even an open one) with a wheelbase as short as a Jeep (any Jeep).
[/b]

I really don't think wheelbase has much to do with it (I do use a good weight-distributing hitch and admit that poor weight distribution might otherwise cause problems). I recall one year we were absolutely flying on our way to an ice racing enduro waaay up north. It was a blizzard, and traffic was jammed up in the only plowed lane. The only way to get to the race on time was to use the unplowed lane, and the Jeep/trailer (open one at that time) handled it with absolute ease. No stability problems whatsoever.

Edit: I am talking about a Jeep Grand Cherokee (not a Wrangler).

[JamesB]

Pulled a pretty loaded up 20' with my titan. There are a few using 1/2 tons to pull 24' trailers but most need leveler bars and the right gearing. The titan did well towing to the glen with that trailer. Its a friends trailer and even his F150 seems to do ok with it. But at this point if I go enclosed will likely ditch the gasser and get a diesel.

[zracre]

F350 Diesel dually...It pulls the 48' 5th like a dream! If I just pull my car on the open trailer its like it isn't even there! I have pulled some large trailers with my work Tundra with good results (and it drives like a sports car)

[matt batson]

toyota may be coming out with a deisel for it's tundra in a year or two.
I would think this would be a great compromise with an aluminum 20 foot enclosed.

May not be able to do 75 towing down the highway...but the rest of your daily driving would be a lot easier and more practical then driving an 8000lb 3/4 ton.

I know the big trucks tow better...but if your towing once a month or less...You may consider the importance of the vast majority of your driving.

[DavidM]

When I was looking at trucks the one comment somebody had that stuck with me was you'll never (or at least rarely) hear somebody say they have too much truck. On the other hand, people all the time say they don't have enough truck. So I'd say get the biggest thing you can afford. I'd go with at least a 3/4 ton to pull a 20'+ enclosed trailer. I like the diesels myself.

As far as the Ford trucks, a single rear-wheel 350 is pretty much the same as a 250 with a bigger block on the leaf springs in back. I started out looking for a 250, but there are so many more 350s out there that the 350s are pretty much the same price as the 250s. The duallys will be more stable pulling, but can be a pain on narrow roads. I wouldn't want a dually if I was going to be driving it in downtown Atlanta everyday.

I found that, in my area - metro Atlanta - at least, the F350/250 prices were much less than comparable Dodge/Chevy trucks. I think it's mostly due to the fact that there were 4-5 times more Ford trucks.

David

[nlevine]

Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab, 5.7L Hemi, 3.90 gears (4x4 off-road package - got the package to get the gears) pulling a 20 ft TPD enclosed. Tows fine with a weight-distributing hitch and the ride is quite comfortable. The 2500s I looked at all had snow-plow-prep packages on them at the dealer and rode pretty poorly, but you could get 4.10 gears with the 2500..

If I was doing a bunch more events per year at tracks farther away, I might consider a 3/4 ton diesel, but I've got no complaints now.

-noam

[Doc Bro]

Rick, get more truck than you need. You're not a guy who's afraid to race and travel. You need something that will be up for the task. You saw my f350 and 28' enclosed last LRP. It's a lot of truck but it's designed to do what we do with them. Go diesel. The f350 is VERY stiff for the first couple thousand miles but it settles in as it gets usage. The suspension is no where near as stiff as it was when it was new. Also, rumor has it that the f150 will be available with a small diesl in late 07 or 08. Oh yeah, I went with the 28 because it's really easy to resell to the circle trackers- they really don't consider anything smaller than 24'.

R

[Z3_GoCar]

I'm using a 1994 Chevrolet S-10 (178k mi) with a Carson Trailer standard car-hauler open trailer. I've pulled the Tehachapi grade about a half-dozen times both ways, taken 46 to 101 same as James Dean, and over 14 to the L.A. area another half-dozen times over the past couple of weeks. With a 4.3l V-6 and 3.72 gears it's a good tow, very evenly matched to the trucks ability. Now if I had an enclosed it would be a beast of a different color, another truck would then be required. I went the open trailer route as I already had this truck and adding a trailer was easier than getting both. Be careful as some guy's found out this summer that above a total gross weight requiers a commercial license, something like 19,000 lbs comes to mind and that's total gross weight so 8k for the truck and 8k for the trailer/race car leaves only 3k for fuel, passengers, and any other cargo. These guy's tried to skate by as they were using toter-homes and not getting away with it, but a two ton truck with 5th wheel would have the same kind of issues.

James

[Jeremy Billiel]

James - I do not believe you need a CDL unless you are commercially moving equipment. For our race cars this is not neccessary I believe. Perhaps each state is different.

[Z3_GoCar]

James - I do not believe you need a CDL unless you are commercially moving equipment. For our race cars this is not neccessary I believe. Perhaps each state is different.
[/b]

Sorry, the limit is lower than I stated it's over 10,000lbs. The thread can be found here:

Best bet is to fly as far under the radar as you can.

and here's the post that starts it:

Yes, everyone/anyone can tow anything with anything UNTIL you get popped/stopped/inspected/whatever.

There is never a "good" time to get hassled. In that area we were "lucky"?? -- In route to a race we did not HAVE to run, essentially end of our season, and would have a few months off where we did not HAVE to go anywhere.

I have spent MANY hours on the internet, printed reams of paper already, and spent hours on the phone. -- MANY more hours to go, then many thousands of dollars will need to be spent.

Because we got "popped", I decided to really look into whatever "rig" I would need to be REALLY legal so we would NOT have to be stopped and hassled again anywhere.
-- Stay with Toter, go crew cab dually then tag or 5th wheel, motorhome + box, single big box with car inside, etc. etc.

The results are NOT nice.
The people I have spoken to so far were (all California DMV and Highway Patrol, but VERY up on Federal DOT regs) : a commercial vehicle "specialist", a motor carrier "specialist", and a HazMat "specialist".

IF you ALWAYS stay WITHIN your own state, I can not tell you what all applies.
IF you EVER cross a state line with your race car then the following ALL applies to YOU, and ANYONE driving the tow vehicle !!!

---
(From printed regs faxed to me)
"The International Registration Plan (IRP) is an agreement among the states to uniformly administer registration laws for commercial vehicles that travel interstate. The IRP agreement defines recreational vehicle as being exempt from commercial registration when used by and individual or his/her family for recreational purposes. A vehicle used in conjunction with a business endeavor does not meet this definition. A business endeavor can be defined by monetary investments made with the expectation that some return on this investment will occur."

I was told point blank that "some return" is ANYTHING.
Manufacturer money;
SCCA tow money;
A free tire;
Claiming ANY deduction on ANY taxes relating to ANYTHING about the vehicle, trailer, or car;
A quart of oil;
A T-shirt;
A hat;
A pen;
A free dinner;
A DISCOUNT on parts -- etc.
Has NOTHING to do with PROFIT, and absolutely does NOT have to be dollars.

A VERY key word is "EXPECTATION" - you ABSOLUTELY do NOT have to ever GET anything, just have an expectation of EVER GETTING ANYTHING.
I was told there is NO way ANY of us are going to be able to talk our way out of THAT -- !!!

Then:
ANY commercial vehicle used in a business endeavor (see above) requires a class "A" license in California. (Log books, max drive time, etc., and do not forget the IRP above is FEDERAL -- ALL states if you cross a state line) if it is over 10,000 lbs GVWCR -- That means Gross Vehicle Weight COMBINED RATING -- Yes, truck, trailer, car, tools, spares, + PEOPLE has to be UNDER 10,001 lbs.
(Sample: GMC extended cab 3/4 ton = 7K ?GVWR, small trailer = 2K, car at 2.5K, spares + one person = .5k, total = 12K !!!)
If you are driving a vehicle that requires a commercial license, then THAT vehicle MUST be registered as commercial (so I can't even keep the toter registered as a motorhome).
Because the vehicle is commercial, and driven across state lines, you MUST have a Motor Carrier Permit.
Because you have a MCP you must do the whole IFTA (International Fuel Tax Authority) B.S. which is a permit, full recording of miles, where, when, tax paid, etc. AND file QUARTERLY returns with the IFTA.


HazMat guy gave the only semi-positive answer --
The maximum we can transport (without needing endorsements and placards) is 440 POUNDS aggregate (material + container) TOTAL of gasoline (maximum individual container size of 8 gallons, but must be "approved" container), Nitrogen, and CO2 (max container of 220 pounds).
ALSO: a fuel cell OR a gas tank is "not an approved container" for gasoline
transportation on the highway (NOT JOKING), and it's over 8 gallons which is the container max limit).


He said: "You DO pump all the gas out of the cars BEFORE you leave, DON'T YOU??" (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

Also, just to brighten your day, ALL commercial vehicle owners / Motor Carriers must carry a minimum of $750,000 liablilty policy, and carry proof of it with you.

More to come as I progress through this ---
_________________
Dave Lemon
www.mazdatrix.com
E/P RX7 Convertible
'85 12A Pro7-Now a 13B NASA PTsomething
20B Bridge Blower Drag Car-on display - engine going in Drift Car)
(Drag racing is boring)
Sometimes working on/building my 3-Rotor Bridge Port '86 Drift Car
************************************************** **************************

Sad isn't it.

James

[RSTPerformance]

(From printed regs faxed to me)
"The International Registration Plan (IRP) is an agreement among the states to uniformly administer registration laws for commercial vehicles that travel interstate. The IRP agreement defines recreational vehicle as being exempt from commercial registration when used by and individual or his/her family for recreational purposes. A vehicle used in conjunction with a business endeavor does not meet this definition. A business endeavor can be defined by monetary investments made with the expectation that some return on this investment will occur."

I was told point blank that "some return" is ANYTHING.
Manufacturer money;
SCCA tow money;
A free tire;
Claiming ANY deduction on ANY taxes relating to ANYTHING about the vehicle, trailer, or car;
A quart of oil;
A T-shirt;
A hat;
A pen;
A free dinner;
A DISCOUNT on parts -- etc.
Has NOTHING to do with PROFIT, and absolutely does NOT have to be dollars.

A VERY key word is "EXPECTATION" - you ABSOLUTELY do NOT have to ever GET anything, just have an expectation of EVER GETTING ANYTHING.
I was told there is NO way ANY of us are going to be able to talk our way out of THAT -- !!!
[/b]

I am not going to touch this, but... You talked to some very anal people who I guess are being nice by telling you the letter of the law... I appreciate those that do the wink wink nod nod. Granted to he letter of the rules nerd law you may be illigal but stay away from considering yourself a commercial vehicle at all costs. As someone who runs a public bus system I understand all the "analities" (my new word) of operating a CDL vehicle.

FYI: I never "expect" to gain anything:

1) I gome home happy if I do get something
2) I am not unhappy if I don't get anything
3) I am no longer a CDL vehicle

Good Luck to all;

Raymond "The cops are busy at weigh stations, so pick up the pace so you make it buy before they lift thier head and see you!!!" Blethen

PS: Also, I think you will find that if you look into things you will find that in some cases it doesn't matter what you expect at the track (revenue and what not) it is weather or not you expect or are getting a return on the transportation part of your trip. IE: Transporting a passenger or product for a fee = CDL, Winning something while racing in a race car has nothing to do with transportation and/or your vehicle, thus NO CDL required. Employee getting paid to drive a vehicle = CDL, friend driving a personal truck/vehicle NO CDL.