Neons screwed again

[PSherm]

The CRB withdrew the proposal to the BOD to reclass the Neons from E Prod to F Prod. So much for getting new cars into the production classes. Another case of the LBC good-old-boy network protecting their turf?

[Greg Amy]

They did the same exact thing for my request to move the Sentra/NX2000 to FP from EP.

Funny thing, the DC2 Acura Integra LS - the same car that competes against us with very good parity in ITA - was moved this year into FP with the same specs we both asked for.

Kinda makes you go, "hmmmm....?"

[PSherm]

Greg - at least the CRB gave the Nissan proposal to the BOD. The Neon got withdrawn, with no explanation. I'm beyond the Hmmm... stage on this one. It took the CRB 5 years to properly class the Neon in IT; is it gonna take them 5 years to get it classed properly in Production? Just like ITS, nobody in their right mind is gonna prep for EP so they can get killed, especially the expense of higher engine prep than what was proposed for FP, only to have to de-tune (IF) the car goes to FP eventually.

A letter to the CRB is in work... :angry:

[GregM]

My spare chassis is stripped ready to get blasted / primed and the cage installed. The project will now stop and be pushed out to the storage area.

I was ready to build the F Prod. Neon and now this. Start writing your letters. Posting on line will get us nowhere fast. If enough people write in maybe we can get a response.

I will be at the Runoff's in Topeka so if we can get enough letters in now I can bring it up in the tent meeting. If someone can write up a good request stating the facts ( Dan W or Chis C ?Please help with this ) we can all copy it and send it in. I would reference the ITS to ITA move that took so long it killed Mopar support of the car / parts they developed for IT Neon's.

Dissappointed but not surprised. I could not find where this was mentioned in Fastrack , could you please post it ?

Do they really think anyone would attempt to build an EP Neon ?

[PSherm]

Greg - it's on page 35, middle of the page. I wrote a letter to the CRB asking for an explanation; we'll see if I get a response. I'm not very hopeful...

I'm glad I haven't done any real work yet, since I'm running my Neon at the Runoffs. Maybe it's last hurrah?

Look me up when you're at HPT. I'll be in the tent meetings as well.

[Rabbit07]

Do you guys really want to run Prod anyway?

They did the same thing to the Mustang 79-93. It ended up in EP because it's engine is 2.3l. It is a pig in ITB and they want it to run against Miatas?

Let me know how I can help. I personally will still continue to develop the car for ITA. The car gets faster everytime I take it out!

[GregM]

Paul I'll be in the black #74 Pontiac T2 Firebird for the Runoff's. Look me up as well. We need to be in the Prod meeting.

I will continue to develope the Neon for ITA and I hope others will as well so we can get these cars up front quickly with some more developement. It was great to have Chris racing his neon out at Lime Rock with my two cars running. I hope to have them both up to Chris's level of prep. shortly. The lack of the IT crate motor has slowed me down but I have two motors currently being built to spec. Also being worked on is a set of Penske's as the Mopar units aren't available.

I would like to start to build the Prod. car as my T2 ride will be outclassed shortly with the arrival of the Lotus and some other great changes the CRB has in store for T2. I do believe the Neon in FP will fit the class and be competitive. If they leave it in EP it is just outclassed as the rules sit currently. To leave the car out to pasture like this when there are just so many Neon's out there parked as old SSC cars is insane. No wonder Nasa is growing quickly.

Where are the old Neon SSC drivers and cars hiding ? We need to get more people involved. Just the other day I was driving in a wealthy neighborhood ( $2,000,000 + ) and there in the driveway outside the garage sat a pristine Neon Challenge car in full decal's like the day it first raced !!! How many more are out there hiding just waiting ???????????????????

[PSherm]

Where are the old Neon SSC drivers and cars hiding ? [/b]

They're all running in Nasa's Spec Neon series! I think I have seen 3 Neons running in ITA in the Midiv this year...

At least with prepping the car for IT, I have no excuse not to install Chris' bushings in my control arms!
And I already have the Mopar coilovers, although I'm gonna need a shorter spring to fit 225's on the front. I'll just have to flip the tires after every weekend...

[Knestis]

I heard of one that ended up being a kid's ride for school.

K

[lateapex911]

I don't know how it works on the Prod car side of things, but don't be too quick to blame the CRB. Yes, they are the final word and the conduit that you see, but the PAC is the committee that does the legwork and makes the recommendations.

In IT, most of the calls are made by the ITAC. The CRb makes suggestions and comments, and asks questions for better understanding, and prvides background info, but most of the calls are ITAC calls.

So, look up who's on the PAC, and go have a chat if you want to understand how things really happened.

[Fastfred92]

Where are the old Neon SSC drivers and cars hiding ? We need to get more people involved. Just the other day I was driving in a wealthy neighborhood ( $2,000,000 + ) and there in the driveway outside the garage sat a pristine Neon Challenge car in full decal's like the day it first raced !!! How many more are out there hiding just waiting ???????????????????
[/b]

My 2001 ACR SSC lease expired, I would love to know where that car is now ! :P

[GregM]

The following items were withdrawn by the Club Racing Board
Production
Item 9. Effective 11/1/06: Reclassify the 1995-98 LP Dodge Neon (SOHC and DOHC) from EP to FP at current EP weight, with .450 inch lift on
the camshaft, and 11.0:1 compression ratio.

Does anyone know who sent in the original request to the CRB for this ?
Has anyone even built an EP motor to determine how much power it will even have ?

Here's the names of the Advisory Comittee memebers
Production
Jon Brakke, Chairman
Larry Funk
Kevin Allen
Eric Krueger
Tim Linerud
Tom Feller
Mike Cummings
Kevin Dennis
Liaisons: Culbertson & Dowie

Send in your request to reclassify the EP Neon to FP right away. To post here about it without sending a request is a waste of time. Remember this all has to be done before December unless of course your the SSB Solstice Otherwise its another year of no Production Neon racing in SCCA.

Send requests to [email protected]

[PSherm]

I don't know how it works on the Prod car side of things, but don't be too quick to blame the CRB. Yes, they are the final word and the conduit that you see, but the PAC is the committee that does the legwork and makes the recommendations.
[/b]

Jake - that may indeed be the case, but I would like an explanation from the CRB why THEY pulled the proposal. The original proposal was in the March FasTrack for member comment, and I saw no letters during the year against it. If I had an answer from the CRB, then whatever issues there are can be addressed by the PAC.

That being said, I don't know why I'm in such a hurry to spend oodles of time and money going into Prod...

[lateapex911]

That being said, I don't know why I'm in such a hurry to spend oodles of time and money going into Prod...
[/b]

me either! it's a political and mechanical snake pit!

(kidding....sort of...........)

[GregM]

Does anyone have the numbers for 1995- 1999 please. Thanks

Neon’s entered in the SCCA Runoff’s
2006 2 Neon’s out of 32 entered
2005 5 Neon’s out of 38 entered
2004 13 Neon’s out of 40 entered
2003 14 Neon’s out of 40 entered
2002 12 Neon’s out of 30 entered
2001 17 Neon’s out of 38 entered
2000 12 Neon’s out of 31 entered

Also if anyone has any entry numbers for Neon Challenge races that can be quoted it would be appreciated.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The common thread in the NX/SE-R and Neon rejection to FP seems to be the 2.0L engine size. Even the Miata in FP (1.6) starts with 116hp and has to have a LP head IIRC.

To write a good letter - find cars of similar vintage, of similar power AND of similar engine capaicty - the DC2 Integra is close as Greg pointed out but you may just be "that much" over.

The problem with Prod IMHO is that they are forcing newer cars in with limited prep becasue they don't want to create more classes and let older ones die.

[GregM]

Andy I believe you are correct.

WE ( the members) need to get this problem solved before we have no more memership to support this club. The sky isn't falling but our membership is graying and Nasa is attracting all the younger crowd due to situations like these. This is a problem we will face in the future. Be proactive not retroactive about the future of OUR club.

How many 60's/ 50's vintage Prod. cars do you think get built a year as opposed to how many possible new mid 90's Prod. cars that could get built. The younger crowd many believe do not relate to these older cars. I myself race vintage also but you don't see my vintage historied 65 A/S Mustang racing National's in SCCA now do you ???????????

Now we are headed to Topeka 2006 for the Runoff's and if you look at the field of car's entered we have a 69 Datsun, a 72 Datsun and a 73 Datsun in E Production. Then we look to F Production where we have a 73 BMW 2002, a 68 MG Sprite, a 62 & 63 Austin Healey, a 63 MGB, a 65 Turner Millenium, a 70 Porsche 914 and a 62 Lotus Super 7 just to name a few. None of these cars ever achieved the production numbers we see in the Neon ACR let alone any Neon model that was produced yet we don't try to bring in the newer cars to the class. A car like this with high production numbers and readily available already built race cars that can be converted should be supported by the club so as to bring in newer membership that many times wasn't even born when these other cars were produced.

I would support the NX/ SER request as well.

[Charlie Broring]

I am sorry to hear of the denial to move the Neon to F/P. I was aslo turned down in my request to move the hopeless F/P Volvo 142 that I have been racing in National's. The CRB and Prod Advisory comittee are doing a piss poor job of letting IT cars into Production with a competitive classification. I think it is a combination of lack of understanding of the cars performance potential and a lack of desire to allow IT cars into Prod. They are really hung up on not creating an "overdog" car. They over estimate the speed of the limited prep sedans. For example, the poor ITB Mustang really got screwed being classed in E/P Limited Prep.

I just today submitted a letter to the CRB that is very critical of the job they are doing in providing IT cars an oprtunity to move in Prod or GT. The letter is not specific to my car and certainly applies to your issue too. I suggest that you consider writing a similar letter. If they get enough complaints maybe they will listen. They should, it's our club as much as it thiers.

By the way I am so frustrated by the Prod. rulemakers that I am converting my F/P car to IT!

Charlie Broring

[p.keane]

Charlie, I have only been on the CRB for less that a year and being from an IT back ground the different Prod rules make my head swim. As Jake said each class has a committee that sends the CRB recommendations. I have tried to alway support what the indavidual committees recomend, unless I thought it was outside the box. I will also let you know that I am a strong supporter of the Production committee running all of the current cars through a similar process like the IT comittee did last year. This would enable them to have a better understanding of how the different rules packages stack up. I will also be at the runoff, so feel free to look me up. Peter Keane, CRB.

[mustanghammer]

Charlie, I have only been on the CRB for less that a year and being from an IT back ground the different Prod rules make my head swim. As Jake said each class has a committee that sends the CRB recommendations. I have tried to alway support what the indavidual committees recomend, unless I thought it was outside the box. I will also let you know that I am a strong supporter of the Production committee running all of the current cars through a similar process like the IT comittee did last year. This would enable them to have a better understanding of how the different rules packages stack up. I will also be at the runoff, so feel free to look me up. Peter Keane, CRB.
[/b]

I'll be happy to discuss this with you in person as well but it seems to me that the best place to find new Prod Cars is in the ITCS.

Here are some thoughts:

How about classing cars before anyone asks for the classification. NASA does this in spades!

If the PAC feels the need to control the performance potential of new cars how about doing this with weight. Weight is cheap to add and some what cheap to take off.

Don't worry about a car's age - some "old" cars are still VERY popular like the one I own

Don't be afraid to class the same car in multiple places - drivers can read class designations on track and it gives a car owner a chance to build as they go.

Thanks for posting here Peter!