Dynapck at LRP for the NARRCs

[Andy Bettencourt]

Quit trying to make this a profitable thing for the car owner and let the poor guy who invested $60K in the dyno make a buck or two. Pony up and learn something!!!!!

Greg, who do we have?

Andy
Greg
Jeff L.
Joe D.
BBRacing guys?
Tim?
Serra with Lorenzo's CRX?
Doug in Blaney's old horse?

[67ITB]

I have to work that weekend, but if it can get done on Friday count me in.

I hope that after building 3 engines this year we are over 100 hp. we finally kept it off the wall long enough to drain the "break in oil" out of this one.

Looking for 108hp

Matt Bal

[Jake]

If I make less WHP than any of the guys in B will you move me?

Jake "about 90hp to the wheels" Fisher

[lateapex911]

Maaaaaybeeee....

So can we add you to the list?

[dickita15]

If I make less WHP than any of the guys in B will you move me?

Jake "about 90hp to the wheels" Fisher
[/b]

seriously Jake, hard data is tough to come by. We know there will be a couple of ITAC guys there and probably one or two CRB guys so it would be a great chance to give them a data point. if I am racing that weekend I will take a pull for just that reason.

[JLawton]

Wow, I haven't checked the site for 12 hours and I'm already late to the discussion!!
Count me in!!

To Raymond's point, I imagine there are a few ITB guys (some who don't even read this forum....No names) who are front runners and who will not do it. And those are the guys are the ones I would want to see do it!!



A couple of logistics problems............... (party pooper mode on)

What about the guys who don't read this forum and show up. My guess is that being caught off guard, many wouldn't do it.....

Time: I remember the last time they were there, there was always a line. To get that many cars through is going to be tough. When at the track, I hardly have enough time to go to the bathroom let alone standing in line for an hour or two!! (of course, if I didn't have to work on the %&*#$ car all the time, maybe it wouldn't be so bad!!)

If there are some front runners who won't do it, it will prove nothing to me. In fact, I would start to question those cars where I haven't in the past.................

(Party pooper mode off)

I think it's a great idea!!! Thanks for the leg work Jake!!

[hunter164]

Ill try to talk to the rest of the BB guys today. I think we will only have 2 cars up there this weekend. We do a fair amount of dyno testing, but for the sake of comparison they may want to jump in.

[Tkczecheredflag]

Not only am I in but I think this would go a long way to really bringing some folklore out of the closet. I challenge the top 5 in every class to participate.

My ITA Miata is in 100%. Might be a good cross-post to the Northeast section on specmiata.com...

AB
[/b]

I've been away from the site for a day too. Not sure about being in the "top 5" but if the Gods smile on me at the NARRC-OFFS I'm in for a pull. Nothing to hide here - sounds like fun - loved Dicks story about T and A.

[dickita15]

loved Dicks story about T and A.
[/b]

T and A !! I thought this was a PG site. oh yea I get it now. :P

[Jeremy Billiel]

I am certainly not in the top 5 or top 15 for that matter, but if people really want to see what a stock GSR puts down I am in!

[Rabbit05]

If I can get my Rabbit back together for the race at Lime Rock, I would be interested in doing it. I would like to see what my Rabbit would do on the dyno. Since we just put a new motor in it and then I went and put in the wall last year.

But since I am on a tight budget ,I might have to fore go buying beer for the weekend....


John VanDenburgh

VanDenburgh Motorsports
ITC Rabbit 05

[BillW]

If this is the SAME guy that was at LRP a few years back, make sure your car has a locking diff.. It won't work with open of worn clutch/viscous diff since it requires both wheels to spin at the same speed. There is no coupling between the units which attach to the drive hubs (you need to remove your wheels). It also reads a little lower than a Dynojet type chassis dyno ( I'm told) Just as a reference, my SSM a few yeas back dyno'd at 89 RWHP! I still have the same crate motor on it's sixth year, so it might be interesting to do another run this year...

Bill

[Andy Bettencourt]

To Raymond's point, I imagine there are a few ITB guys (some who don't even read this forum....No names) who are front runners and who will not do it. And those are the guys are the ones I would want to see do it!!
[/b]

I typed up a whole response and then deleted it. This is a perfect opportunity for many for many different reasons. The integrity of the NER IT classes can be made or broken at this event. I know this is a hard line but we have very few impersonal ways to 'call people out' - and this is one.

[Greg Amy]

It won't work with open of worn clutch/viscous diff since it requires both wheels to spin at the same speed.[/b]

That's incorrect, Bill. It will work fine with an open or viscous diff, I've done it. The two units (called "power absorption units") will control each wheel's speed such that they are always equal, regardless of the differential. It, in effect, becomes the limited-slip diff... You can even get a graph showing the torque split between the two wheels, if you're so inclined.

Details of the unit at: http://www.dynapack.com/dynapack.html

BTW, it's not the same company as before, it's a new guy from Canton.

[dazzlesa]

i think some things should be cleared up. to compare would be great. this would get rid of some myths and maybe fuel some new discussions. but the part of calling people out is a whole different animal.only knowledgeable engine people can decifer what the #'s mean to a specific car. even compaing 2 of the same cars does not prove that one is illegal because it makes more power. i know some people are very #'s savy but for those that may not be, this should not be used as a witch hunt. As in the past if there is a group conensus of a issue, then and only then should any actions follow. i hope i am making some sense

[BillW]

I don't recall which brand dyno was at LRP a few years back, but I specifically recall he said that he couldn't do a few cars (SM) because they had bad viscous diffs or open diffs. I remeber this because one of the cars I was interested in had a Sunbelt motor with viscous diff and they couldn't get a good pull on it..

Bill

[Andy Bettencourt]

i think some things should be cleared up. to compare would be great. this would get rid of some myths and maybe fuel some new discussions. but the part of calling people out is a whole different animal.only knowledgeable engine people can decifer what the #'s mean to a specific car. even compaing 2 of the same cars does not prove that one is illegal because it makes more power. i know some people are very #'s savy but for those that may not be, this should not be used as a witch hunt. As in the past if there is a group conensus of a issue, then and only then should any actions follow. i hope i am making some sense [/b]

You are making sense - but I think it is misguided. These numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. What is does would be different to everyone. See my post #5 in this thread. It makes more sense to me that guys who are willing to show their hand who have high numbers are legal.

I could get into this from a thousand different angles on why I think guys WON'T get on the dyno in front of their peers. To each his own. Rick - to me you sound like a guy whose car makes a ton of power and you know it - but are afraid of just how much it IS making and the ruckus that may cause. If I had MSN stuff, or Blaney stuff, or Kessler stuff, I would be proud to put down the numbers and know I was legal.

This ain't no witch hunt. It's an opportunity for people to learn a few things - about cars that participate - and surmise about cars that don't.

Take Greg's car for instance. If he refused to hit the dyno when we all were, I question his legality. Right or wrong on my part - so be it - but for those who have ever heard that some people think they are cheating - this is a PERFECT way to shut them up.

Maybe I am just not afraid of my results becoming public. 133whp on a dynojet ain't gonna rustle anyones feathers - just may help them understand they need to drive better. Depends on what you are 'willing' to learn.

[Greg Amy]

I don't recall which brand dyno was at LRP a few years back...[/b]

Same dyno, the DynaPack. If that's what they said, then I'd kindly suggest they were not familiar with the operation of the device. That could possibly explain why they do not have one anymore... - GA

Take Greg's car for instance. If he refused to hit the dyno when we all were, I question his legality...[/b]

Then again, maybe I just wanted to screw with you...

I don't see how knowing the HP number determines legality. Can anyone tell me what is the maximum possible horsepower/torque available from a completely-legal Nissan engine? A Honda? A Dodge? Anything? Beuhler? Ideas and processes change, and what's max-legal hp today will change tomorrow, guaranteed. I don't know of anyone that stops when they reach a magic figure and says, "that's it!"...

So, if you think it's a good idea to take this number to determine legality, I'd say you're way off base. I guarantee you there's guys out there that can get more power oout of a legal engine than others.

On the other hand, as Rick implied, if I was making a buttload of power and still losing, I'd feel like crap...maybe THAT'S why some folks won't pull...? Others may not want to spend the money, while some simply may not give two shakes. You can try and convince some folks to do it, but you can't make them, it's their choice. It's also others' choices to infer from those actions, rightly or wrongly...

[MKessler]

Are we going to let all competitors in a class view the sheets/display if agreed beforehand, or just the ITAC? I vote yes for all to see. A max whp number is one thing, a torque curve is another. Whoops, maybe I shouldn&#39;t have pointed that out. <_<

I suggest three runs as a standard for the "official" comparisons. The first run will be lower than the last.

Those of you used to Dynojet numbers, bring tissues.

Who&#39;s bringing the duck for the witch weighing?

[Ed Funk]

If we have both itc cars running that weekend, we&#39; be interested in doing both, especially if Steph starts kicking my butt with what should be an identical car. <_< If that happens, I&#39;d immediately suspect her crew chief of building a cheater. But, you&#39;d have to wonder why I wouldn&#39;t do the same for mine