Progression from I.T.

[rob22]

Those looking for the next step up in speed, might consider moving to a GT-1, GTA type Road Race stock car.
Much more affordable than you might think. For example, you can purchase an ex ASA perimeter frame
stock car (easily converted to road race config.) complete with race prepped LS-1 chevy and Jerico trans for 13,000-20000 dollars. New Goodyear short track tires are about 100 bucks, suspension pieces are massed produced and relatively cheap. Other perimeter frame cars with 500-600 hp are similarly available.
These cars are easy to work on, very strong and offer 180 mph capability.

The V8 Stockcar series which runs in conjuntion with CFR SCCA and other regions offer big fields and great fun at the best tracks in the country. Look at the numbers in the GT Field of late in CFR.

For more information about running these type of beasts, check out V8 stockcar.com

"Bosco" Logsdon

[RSTPerformance]

Those looking for the next step up in speed, might consider moving to a GT-1, GTA type Road Race stock car.
Much more affordable than you might think. For example, you can purchase an ex ASA perimeter frame
stock car (easily converted to road race config.) complete with race prepped LS-1 chevy and Jerico trans for 13,000-20000 dollars. New Goodyear short track tires are about 100 bucks, suspension pieces are massed produced and relatively cheap. Other perimeter frame cars with 500-600 hp are similarly available.
These cars are easy to work on, very strong and offer 180 mph capability.

The V8 Stockcar series which runs in conjuntion with CFR SCCA and other regions offer big fields and great fun at the best tracks in the country. Look at the numbers in the GT Field of late in CFR.

For more information about running these type of beasts, check out V8 stockcar.com

"Bosco" Logsdon
[/b]

ah... ok The AS mustang we had was mid pack and it cost us 22K one year and 21K the next to run. Granted initial costs are not a lot but I think operating costs are much higher...

[rob22]

RST- I am very familiar with A/S cars and they are actually much more expensive to race than these stockcars. They burn down stock parts never intentioned to be raced at an alarming rate. Calipers, trannys, rotors, rear ends. They are pretty fast, but very heavy. The Hoosier tires are expensive, they eat brake pads. IMHO, not a great class to race.

I get 10-25 lap short track medium compound tires from a oval track friend for 30-50 bucks and they last at least two weekends. They are only 100 bucks new!!!

I've run for a year with no motor, clutch, tranny (jerico), or rear end problem (winters Q/C).

We were able to buy a 650 hp Lozano Bros small block for less than you can buy a Huffaker Spec Miata motor.

We freshened the Jerico for 500 bucks, it is the best shifting, least troublesome tranny I have ever raced.
This early Jerico was built around 1988.

There are guys running ex late model stock car with 400 hp ($4000 new) crate motors running laps at Daytona in the 2.03 to 2.04 range.

Outstanding bang for the buck and nothing like A/S racing.

Bosco

[Knestis]

Bosco here is actually not far off. We did a comprehensive cost analysis for a guy back in the mid '80s and this was a surprisingly affordable option. If TransAm would adopt the NASCAR "touring" series rules (essentially GTA), it would be viable pro series.

K

[tom_sprecher]

I also considered an ASA or similar asphalt circle track car to be run as GT1 or SPO before I realized my experience level and my wallet would not allow it at this time. Purpose built race cars can be cheaper to run than a overstressed production based race car. Especially on brakes and trans components. Plus the shear number of inexpensive and available circle track parts and used race cars is incredible.

A buddy got out of an AS Camero (he claims) due mainly to the cost of replacing rotors.

[matt batson]

I am intrigued...at the thought of driving something so fast for so cheap....

My concerns are this...

- 13 to 20K for a car is quited a bit more then I have laying around...and this is for a car that still needs to be converted to road race.

- I wonder how heavy these cars are, how cumbersome they are to drive ( I like nimble cars)...and with the extra weight and huge hp, what my fuel costs would be for the season.

- My tires currently last about 6 weekends or more (light car, low hp)...so my tire budget would be double or more

- My front brakes have lasted for over a season, and that is the brake pads!!!!!(carbotech's)... and the discs are still like new; will probably last two or three seasons.

- I havent had any problem with any "production" parts on my car. Heck, I havent even looked at the wheel bearings and my car had over 100,000 street miles before being converted. (dont know if I should be admitting that... )

Personally, I think...for myself anyways, that my progression will be to spec miata. The talent runs deep in that class, the cars are pretty similar (relatively speaking), and if you can do well in this class you can possibly find a pro ride.

On the other hand...
If your looking to maybe get into Nascar....I would imagine this is a good area to be in. I know boris said and max papis have done pretty well with this. And, holy cow, is that where the money is...

Of course, what are the odds of making it to the big time

[matt batson]

actually, have you heard of anyone in gt-1 or GTA moving up to the big time?

[Z3_GoCar]

I am intrigued...at the thought of driving something so fast for so cheap....

.....
Personally, I think...for myself anyways, that my progression will be to spec miata. The talent runs deep in that class, the cars are pretty similar (relatively speaking), and if you can do well in this class you can possibly find a pro ride.

On the other hand...
If your looking to maybe get into Nascar....I would imagine this is a good area to be in. I know boris said and max papis have done pretty well with this. And, holy cow, is that where the money is...

Of course, what are the odds of making it to the big time
[/b]

I know of one former Spec Miata Driver that's made the big time, Justin Hall. He's last years West Coast Pro-Series winner and placed 3rd over all at Road Antlanta. This year he's running in Grand Am, in an e-46 325. He's made the camera a few times, but no wins. He did make the Hole Shot award at Ft. Lauderdale thought. I can tell it's not been an easy transistion....

[Ken Grammer]

There are actually a number of SM guys that have made one or more apearances in Grand-AM Cup or World Challenge after running SM or the SCCA Pro Miata Cup series. I know I will leave some names out, but just off the top of my head I can think of these names:

Payton Wilson
Tom Long
Shawn Dewey
Ryan Pilla
Chip Herr
Todd Buras
Mike Halpin
Ken Dobson
Herb Sweeney
Patrick Dempsey

As I said, I know there are more but I'm working off of memory here... which leaves a LOT to be desired!

Now if you want a truly long list of names, start looking at the names of peopel who moved up from IT!

[lateapex911]

Eric Curaan is a guy who comes to mind. And of course, Randy Pobst started in autocrossing,,and has turned a wheel in ITB, right Peter?? LOL. EF Robinson did lots of time in SCCA, but before IT I think!.

I don't know what Randy makes a year, but IIRC, Eric is a busy guy...still has his day job..at least he did a bit a go. So while the rides are tough, the money is tougher to come by.

[matt batson]

I know there are several from spec miata...
I also know they prolly arent making a whole lot of money either...

It is difficult, highly competitive, and when all is said and done, there really isnt much money in road racing, except maybe F1

So, I was wondering if anyone has made the transition from GTA to Busch or Nascar? Any success stories there? This, unfortunately, is where all of the money is...
I'm still amazed when I hear about some guy who usually places out of the top ten, or even twenty, yet is still a millionare....

[Ken Grammer]

When I joined Syngery Racing at the end of 2004 we were running Brad Coleman in IMSA's Star MAzda series. Brad went on in 2005 to be part of "Team 16" in the Rolex series and have some inpressive showing. in 2005 he ran a local weekly round track series to get experience in stock cars. This year he's taking names in ASA (poles, wins, etc.). He's had a couple of impressive Busch runs already as well.

So while he started in open wheel cars, he's one example of a driver who is making a VERY inpressive transition from road racing to stock cars.

Not quite the question asked... but interesting non the less...

Hmmm.... maybe USERA needs a weekely round track "enduro"

[rob22]

I was speaking more in terms of speed when I mentioned progression from I.T.

Let's face it, in North America there is only a handful of road racers that are making more than just a living at it, and even some of them aren't making huge money.

But there are success stories, like Robby Gordon (off road to imsa to cart to nascar), Boris who started in the Corvettte Challenge series, Dorsey Schroeder (spec racers, GT-1, Trans Am, IMSA, Nascar), Tommy Kendall,( SCCA Trans Am, IMSA, a little Nascar) Wally Dallenbach (SCCA, CART, Trans Am, Nascar, TV Booth) Randy Pobst (SCCA ITC rabbit to factory Porsche driver to Audi to anything with wheels.)
Johnny Miller SCCA GT-1 to TA to Nascar on occasion.

TO MATT: My buddy Jeff Bailey has an ex ASA car already converted for sale for about 13-15K depending on the stuff that goes.

So my point is that if you want to go real fast for not too much dough it is possible to do it with one of these
stockcars. Mine weighs 2600 pounds has power steering and now that I am not trying to throw the car around and just letting the car do the work it is much simpler to drive. The acceleration with 650 hp is incredible. But you don't have to have that much power to lap these type cars fast. Mine just spins the tires a lot off the corner. Still working on forward bite. One of these cars will fly with about 450 hp.

My tire bill is way down over my ITS or EP Z Car. Believe it or not this car costs about the same to race as the others I just mentioned per weekend. (800 doll. hoosier DOT's)

Just something for you to consider.

Bosco

[BobsAuto]

All these guys you mentioned that have come out of SCCA worked hard to sell themselves to the media. The Wall family transitioned from IT to AS to local Busch North to one or two Busch Grand National. John used to tell me it was a full time job in itself to pound the pavement to sell themselves. Those who have made it big have had the $$ to promote. Promote, promote, promote. That is the key. All it takes is tiime and $, but actually, the promotion can be done with more time than money. Selling oneself is the key. Good resume and portfolio, knowing the press around your area, and getting ANY free radio and TV air time you can find. And having a good sponsor to help you with that promotion helps as well.

[rob22]

Good point Bob. Those that have succeeded have tirelessly promoted themselves or they would not have made it.

Matt, if your goal is making big money in the sport then you need to be oval track racing. Local late models, to ASA late models, To hooters, on up.

If your heart is in road racing stick with it, take bob's advice above and get as much track time as you can.
Drive anything, like Randy did and still does. (A true grassroots hero) still giving back to the little guys.

[BobsAuto]

By the way, this is Trish....I'm the computer literate of the two. And the ex-road-racer and Mom to Raymond and Stephen (Audi's in IT.

[Dano77]

This topic was brought up last year on the norteast site. Its not about who made /makes more money at raceing. Its all about how cheap we can race. with ITA cars going for 22k, a good used roller can be bought f
or about 5 grand. motors from summit are 3200 to 4900 depending on power level.
The big problem is nobody wants to step up,its not a known product. you actually need pateince when converting the car. Lefthander chassis has no idea what to sell you when you ask"what control arm do i need for the right side"Thats not their deal. And every one sells stuff for a small block Chevy,just not my small block Chevy....
That being said,The cars are a blast to drive,run on pump gas,{not legal fuel per GCR,ask my Mom}tires are in fact 100$ & 375 horse is about all you can use at NHIS,otherwise it spins the tires.
Any body now if Benspeeds car is done & if he will be at the Sept reginal at NHIS./ cant wait to race against an other IT guy. Low car counts up here
If any one has a question just dropme a note & I'll get back to you.
Dan Sheppard
99 SPO Monte Carlo (masively improved touring)

[rob22]

SORRY TRISH- I didn't have my good eye open.

With regard to the conversion pieces, HOWE racing is more acquainted with road race conversion as they are the one that developed the GTA chassis, and the road race front clip.

My car is a purpose built Port City road race car, that then had the HOWE GTA front clip added.
The chassis was commissioned by the Spirit of Daytona team (Flis Motorsports) to run the aborted Grand Am
LR series (left-right). I bought the bare chassis from them and had Woody at BEMCO fabrication finish the car.

The car is five weekends old and we are just now getting a good handle on it. Had to change front sway bar, springs, and send the shocks back to pro shock for revalving. Much better.
In March at Moroso in a 20- car or so GT-1 and SPO field we finsihed 4th OA and first in V8 stockcar.
The first three were all true GT-1's with 16" wheels-tires and wings, downforce bodies etc.

The power is intoxicating and it is hard to get back in the ITS car.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dano,

Ben ran at the Glen and is here at LRP this weekend.

[BobsAuto]

IMHO, it would be interesting if someone could actually get a hold of one of the front runner NEXTEL cup road racing chassis and run it in SCCA. I have often heard that teams will sell off older models at cheaper $ if one were to keep the sponsor's names on. (Granted, this is only hearsay, but when talking with some of the folks that I used to work with when I worked with NASCAR folks, that used to be the case) They would actually work with someone to develop the chassis and learn from them for the road courses. Then again, that was back when they first started running the road courses.