ITR Competition

[Doc Bro]

So I was curious about the ITR hooplah. Is ITR something that will pull drivers from A, B, C or is it designed primarily to inject parity into S and attract new unclassed cars?

I guess what I'm asking is:

1) Are any of the current guys (other than e36 ITS) considering ITR as the "place to be"?


2) Is this a class that has had a flood of cars waiting for a place to race, that will populate it from go?


3) I'm curious to know what guys who are at the top of their game (like Greg Amy) think of ITR. Is it new, uncharted territory (a stepping stone, or another rung to climb) or is it a whole other entity?

I'm not interested in arguing cars, only interested in people's opinions regarding ITR's position in the IT food chain.

R

[zracre]

I dont think a huge amount of A drivers are going to jump ship for R but I'd bet more than a few S drivers would. I'm in A because of the cars and competition. I'm not saying I wouldn't build an R car but one never knows!

[JeffYoung]

As one of the guys that wrote the proposal, I can say the intent was:

1. To get newer, higher hp cars classed in IT that will attract new members to the class.

2. To give the 325is a place to run unrestricted at less than its ITS process weight.

3. To give existing IT racers a place to run more modern (akin to no. 1 I suppose) models of their favorite makes.

Building an ITR car will not be cheap and may not be possible for a lot of IT guys. I for one am going to take a few years to do it, will start looking for a shell once everything is official. I do think some of the top race shops -- BW, Speedsource, Sunbelt, ISC etc. -- will turn out some top of hte line ITR cars fairly quickly.

But I bet next year, you'll see at lot of 325s and maybe a Prelude or two. By 2008 or 2009, I think you'll see more of the grassroots guys getting in, especially if the SN94/95 Mustang is classed.

Interesting times. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. If I can score a Supra shell cheap, which is not likely, that is the car for me. If not, probably the 300ZX.

I love my TR8, but damn, I'm looking forward to 4-wheel disc brakes......

[lateapex911]

Just in case you missed the comment O copied into the other thread from the SCCA site, here it is. It's from a non SCCA racer who currently races with the Porsche Club of America, and has a ITR candidate:

I'm planning on moving out of PCA and into ITR. I have to tell you, if it wasn't for the formation of ITR I would never consider moving to SCCA. My other option is NASA. Based on what I've learned, NASA is a far better venue, less politics, more models allowed, and the rules make more sense.

I'm not involved in SCCA yet and have always been told by former IT racers that the mindset is very closed, change is painful, and people spend more time bickering than racing. There's a reason NASA is growing at a very healthy pace - it's made up of a bunch of disgrunteled SCCA guys.

SCCA is doing the right thing in changing its image and forming new classes. For years there was no non-Marque challenge to SCCA. Now there is. Compition is a wonderfuil thing. SCCA needs to change its image and appeal to a broader, more open minded customer. They are doing just that and I applaud them.[/b]

HE is one of the ITR targets, along with lots of marque guys who are looking for more racing. Not to mention offering an alternative to NASA, et al.

I havea 944 S2 that I think would be a fun car....if they build the class, I might just come on over.

[benspeed]

I have just moved over to SPO/GT1 and will likely stay with this car for 3 seasons - maybe more. BUT, ITR is something I will watch very closely. I loved racing in S but got sick of running a car that was 20 years old and regularly had mysterious problems, many related to just age.

If I can run a modern R car that will not have the same age related problems I'd be a candidate. (I'll wait to see what is the overdog and then buy one and hopefully get 2 seasons before Andy evens things up again)

[Fastfred92]

We would love to hear the final word from SCCA !!! Have 1 very damaged e36 325 ITS car, and have 1 very gutted e36 318 headed for ITA...... Sure would love to be motivated by SCCA giving the big ITR OK so that all that nice 318 sheetmetal could resurrect the 325 into new life, complete with it's BMWCCA 17" wheels! Come on snake eyes !!!!

[seckerich]

Waiting for the "second round" of classification process to come through--no rotary--no new car. ITAC don't fail us now. :P

[Doc Bro]

I too am curious about the final word. I personally think it's a done deal...let's face it if the CRB doesn't green light this proposal then the SCCA is a dinosaur.

I'm soo curious to see where this thing goes.....spec e36 325?

R

[JeffYoung]

It will be "spec" E36 next year until new cars get built. After that, the 325 better watch out. Some fast Japanese sixes will be nipping at its heels.

Steve, I hope to have the RX8 proposal done for review by you guys after Oak Tree National.

[Z3_GoCar]

I'll throw mine in too.

So it won't quite be spec e-36, e-367 has sort of a Porsche sound to it, don't you think :P Besides, I thought you mustang guys were going to let your horses run wild

[lateapex911]

Good to see such anxiousness!

The RX8...when is the first year of it's eligibility?? 07 or 08??

I don't think it will be "Spec" E36....I bet we see some Fowler Preludes, and a smattering of other stuff too.

[Greg Amy]

I'm in A because of the cars and competition. [/b]

Amen, Evan.

ITA is popular because of the relative affordability of the cars along with intense competition. I don't see where the majority of my peers feel compelled to go faster and faster and buy a new car or feel lesser for driving in a 'slower' class. I certainly don't. Someone who does have that compulsion will never be satisfied.

I'm certainly no candidate for ITR. The cars buy-in are far too expensive and the prep costs will be incredible. I just don't have the priorities to blow that kinda money for a hobby (it's impossible to redeem what I'm doing now!). Hell, if ITB or C had some really cool more-recent cars and 25 entries per weekend I'd be looking there, not ITS or R.

I'd love to build and race one for the technical challenge, but not on my own dime. If you gots the desire (and the money) let me know...

Finally, I don't see much of any SCCA Club competition as a "stepping stone" to anything else. It's an end to itself. In my mind SCCA exists primarily as a hobby and a place to generate driving experience, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe in "the old days" it was expected that you'd race SCCA Club for a while to gain experience, but recent history has proven that in order to go pro racing you...write a check and go pro racing. If you really believe that someone with a successful history in SCCA competition and no checkbook will magically be whisked away by the Fairy Racing Godmother into a pro racing seat, well, all the old sayings about 'buying a bridge' apply...

I think ITR is a fine idea for those folks that want to race those particular cars, but I sincerely see no threat to the existing IT classes. I'd be damned surprised if even 10% of the ITR field turned out to be today's current ITA/B/C competitors. - GA

[lateapex911]

I think ITR is a fine idea for those folks that want to race those particular cars, but I sincerely see no threat to the existing IT classes. I'd be damned surprised if even 10% of the ITR field turned out to be today's current ITA/B/C competitors. - GA
[/b]

Thats the hope Greg! We hope that it will provide an outlet for those who might be in current IT classes but in cars they feel are too old, got wrecked, or just don't fit the class...

But....we also hope it steals some interest and entries from marque clubs and other organizations who have newer offerings at this prep level.

And we hope that there is some pent up demand and we see guys jump in now that they see cars classed they want to race.

Initial feedback, like the post I quoted in another thread, shows that interest is coming from marque clubs, and letters we've gotten at ITAC world HQ show lots of "attaboys" from lots of different groups.

We hope it's a win win, where overall numbers are up. Of course, it's not going to field 25 car grids right from the start, but I think we are seeing solid IT numbers (more than any other category, considering the decrease in overall entries) for a reason. And thats because people like the prep level of the ruleset, the cost level, and they feel that there is better parity than ever. Hopefully that management philosophy will be seen in ITR as well.

[Doc Bro]

Thanks for weighing in Greg. I have similar thoughts about it. For me personally, ITR would be easier than ITA because an ITR Z3 is more of a natural occurrence than an ITA one. Wheels, motor upgrades, etc. the 1.9l is one step above prototype (or dinosaur, or orphan, or a turd ) as most people know. The ITR Z3 uses a motor that is a known commodity. But the thought of competing in ITR comes with mixed emotions. I'm really curious to see where it goes and what the car counts will be. I do like the fact that at least on paper the playing field will be level. There should be no 200hp red egg flying around!!!

R

[zracre]

I see alot of Z32's running around...looks like a great platform and alot of fun! I miss my 300ZXTT alot...im sure the IT version would be an absolute hoot!

[Knestis]

I'm thinking like Greg, that the only way ITR would touch us is if we stumbled onto the Rich Guy who would only go club racing in a [fill in image marque here] but needs someone to build and maintain a car for him. Or his kid. Or both. I passed the OPM convoy yesterday as they were headed to the Oak Tree Nat's at VIR and was reminded that's how this gig works.

I'd not really thought about it but I bet the proposition that most ITR entrants will come from other places is accurate (marque clubs, country clubs, new big-money leisure-seekers) - and largely NOT from existing IT fields. But I'm going to add that it might, through its timing and the current state of affairs, poach some of the more well-heeled folks out of Spec Miata. They've done their drivers schools and wadded up a car or two, and are still in mired mid-field. ITR would give them a chance, at least initially, to buy into the front of a high-profile grid.

K

[JeffYoung]

I disagree to a certain extent with Greg. I think a lot of the guys in S are there because it is the "fastest" IT class. I certainly chose an S car primarily for that reason. It think initially ITR will hurt ITS, but in the long run, S will be much better off and hopefully like A is today in Florida and the Northeast. Lots of chassis with a chance to win, lots of good cars and drivers.

I'm not so sure that ITR has a much higher "minimum" buy in than S or A though either. You can find a junked Z32, or a Mustang (when those get in) for peanuts. I bet you could build a $10k ITR car. But, like a $10k ITS or ITA car, it ain't gonna win.

I also think that as B and C cars get retired over the next few years, some of those guys will look at R, S and A and make the jump to R.

So, yes, to a certain extent, I think R will draw from existing IT drivers (I plan on moving to R in a couple of years). But it is a necessity. The PCA guy who posted on the other thread sort of summed it up -- R is a clear example of the SCCA finally embracing newer cars and concepts, and doing so in a way to attract those who right now want nothing to do with the SCCA and the perception that it is a bunch of entrenched Spridget and formula car drivers who resist change to their benefit and the detriment of all others.

[Fastfred92]

(marque clubs, country clubs, new big-money leisure-seekers) [/b]

Kirk, I think I resent that comment

[JeffYoung]

Come on Fred, we all know you are a "big-money leisure seeker."

[zracre]

Im a big money seeker for leisure