Offset cam key

[msogren]

Does anyone have the Mercedes part # for the offset cam keys??
I had a box of 20 a few years ago, but the part # was written in my old racer car setup book.
I was setting up my cam today and needed .5 mm key to get the cam ahead 2*. I had to file it.
I am pretty sure that the Mercedes parts were for the twin cam six, but I am not sure what vintage or ##
Help. Mike Ogren

[shwah]

I never considered using these.

Removing material from the head/block interface moves cam timing in the right direction IMO.

GCR says you may move it back to stock with an offset key. So if you do decide to move it you can only set it to stock. Maybe I'm nuts though.

[msogren]

IMHO, If the car that you are coming up on has a late cam, and you have the early cam , the passing opportunity might be as you exit the turn, not at the end of the straight into the braking zone. Some tracks favor the late cam , like Daytona and maybe Roebling . The lap times are close enough to not matter, just the exit torque seems to be better with a cam set about 2-3 degrees ahead. I have tried both, for many years.
If you have a track with a long uphill third gear or fourth gear pull, like Watkins glen, or the engine does not spend a lot of time over 6000 in high gear, the early cam may go a bit faster .
I am sure that the keys I had are Mercedes , to set the cams on one of the twn sixes, but I am not sure which one.
MM

[shwah]

Good point. Definitely something that could vary track to track. Maybe I should try this sometime.

[JimLill]

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/ipb/e...ft+Woodruff+Key

[msogren]

Thanks, Jim That look like them . MM

[Eric Parham]

I just ordered and received some of the 1987 Mercede$ Benz 190E 2.3 16-Valve offset Woodruff keys for our VW ice racer. The ones I received have the right widths and offsets, but they're both too tall and too long. Are they supposed to fit without grinding?

VW size is 0.153 x 0.191 x 0.487" (measured) = 4x5x12.5mm (nominal).
Received size is 0.153 x 0.243 x 0.600" (measured) = 4x6.5x15.5mm (nominal).

The offsets, ordered part numbers, and received part numbers (from bags) are:

1.3mm, A4190-21381, 6219910067
1.1mm, A4190-21382, 6219910167
0.9mm, A4190-21383, 6219910267
0.7mm, A4190-21384, 6219910467

Does that look right, did I order wrong, or did they send me the wrong stuff?

[Knestis]

We had to grind ours when we were playing with getting cam timing to stock after the engine build this past winter. The only previous experience I've had with them was back in the '80s when they were a cheater option on SSC GTIs, and the gurus never explained the details of whether they were a drop-in fit or had to be massaged.

We actually dyno tested with an adjustable cam gear to figure out the best option. I won't tell you what we ended up with but I will confirm that it's legal per the ITCS, which limits the possibilities somewhat...

Kirk (who wonders if Mike O. ever owned a Showroom Stock VW)

[Greg Amy]

SOMEONE (Drake? Techtonics/EMPI?) used to make a set of offset keys. They came in a blister pack of four (or five?) with varying offsets of 1/2/3/4/5 degrees. You'd flip them one way or another to go + or -.

So, they're out there. Somewhere.

[Conover]

I asked Collin at TT for some but he didn't have or know of any existing, so they got ordered from Merc $6 a pop, ouch!, and whittled on.

[Bill Miller]

Cameron,

Does GMP down near you guys still do VW stuff? I know they did back in the day, but not sure what, if anything they may still have. A couple of years ago at Waterfest, they had a box of old VW goodies (unground solid lifter cam blanks )

[Conover]

I'm really not very familiar with those guys, I understand they are in charlotte, but don't know really, never did any business with them. . . . :snow_cool: