Daytona double sarrc

[gsbaker]

Either Evan was pulling your leg, or you need to refine that line just a wee bit.

[Xian]

Christian,

Mark's line going into the wall is the wrong line.

Can we get a copy of that from Google, or from you?
[/b]

Hmmm... I'll try and keep that in mind.

BTW, Mark, were you wearing an Isaac in the crash?

Once I get it cut down to just the crash, I'll email it to both of you.

Christian

[zracre]

Thats.....a little too high!

[wpspeedracer]

Thats.....a little too high!
[/b]

Thanks Evan....I'll remember that next time....

and yes I was wearing the Isaac - never leave home without it....

Mark

[Mazmarc63]

Hey Mark,

Any new data as to how this happened?? Someone must know who hit who.

My heart sank when I saw your car, but I was very relieved to see you.

[wpspeedracer]

Marc
I've watched the video a hundred times trying to figure it out....It's just not clear enough so we may never know. However, there is no excuse for any contact and I may have made the mistake.....Hopefully I'll know more when I begin tearing apart my car on the rebuild. My apologies to all.....I'll be a better driver for it.

[Xian]

and yes I was wearing the Isaac - never leave home without it....

Mark
[/b]

Same here. After seeing Scott Giles' old car hit the inside of T12@RA during last year's ARRC Enduro, I decided there wasn't anyway I could go out without some sort of protection.

BTW, did you end up with any neck soreness from the hit?

[wpspeedracer]

BTW, did you end up with any neck soreness from the hit?
[/b]

Tuesday I was a little sore, but nothing bad at all after I saw myself how hard the car hit the wall....amazing what a little piece of gear can do....
Mark

[Xian]

Marc
I've watched the video a hundred times trying to figure it out....It's just not clear enough so we may never know. However, there is no excuse for any contact and I may have made the mistake.....Hopefully I'll know more when I begin tearing apart my car on the rebuild. My apologies to all.....I'll be a better driver for it.
[/b]

FWIW, I didn't see the initial impact... I picked up on it visually when your car hit the wall. What I heard in the paddock after the race was that you had passed a few cars under yellow and were in the process of passing an IT7 that was dropping down the banking to "fall into line" with the rest of the field. Apparently he didn't see you coming up past him and managed to clip the RR of your car which rotated it and sent it directly towards the wall.

As I said, I didn't see it firsthand as all the action was going on too far ahead on the banking for me to see it through my windshield banner...

Tuesday I was a little sore, but nothing bad at all after I saw myself how hard the car hit the wall....amazing what a little piece of gear can do....
Mark
[/b]

Greg should be proud of what he's contributed to the safety of the sport.

[gsbaker]

We'd rather be lucky than good.

Tuesday I was a little sore...[/b]

Mark,

Since you are local I expect we will have an oportunity to talk more about this, but did you by any chance have any DAS onboard that could provide G loads? I've done some back-of-the-envelope noodling, but I'd like to know more.

[Bob Sieck]

FWIW - I was between Christians' view and the cars involved. My view wasn't ideal, but IMHO the cars ahead of me were "overdriving" the double yellow flag - which was visible at turn 5, 6, and the blinking NASCAR lites on the high banks when I arrived at those locations. Only the drivers involved know if they saw the warnings.
In hindsight (its great stuff) when we passed the 240Z impaled in the armco past turn #1 you knew that car had to be removed and the only way was with a wrecker - so we should have been looking for warnings . .
Bob Sieck
ITA Miata - sometimes

[zracre]

As I passed the wrecked 240 I saw Mark D going slow and dented as he got back up to speed. I knew a double yellow was in order so I checked the stations as I approached them. Mark D and I raced at each other and the yellows came out as we exited the infield. There was another silver ITS RX7 that passed us then fell into line a lap later (he was well aware that he did a booboo). In the group I was in (Jim C Mark D) It seemed like all was well until we came around and saw Mark N's car destroyed. It kinda ruined the race to see smashed cars like that. We all learn from these things so it should just make us better and more aware. The only good thing is that we know our safety gear is functional and we should stay on top of keeping it that way. I hope to see all involved out there soon!
Also it is refreshing to see Mark N's attitude towards what happenned...he learned from it and will be a better overall racer with his attitude

[Xian]

In hindsight (its great stuff) when we passed the 240Z impaled in the armco past turn #1 you knew that car had to be removed and the only way was with a wrecker - so we should have been looking for warnings . .[/b]

Yep, I was kinda surprised the double yellow didn't come out earlier than it did...

[lateapex911]

Also it is refreshing to see Mark N's attitude towards what happenned...he learned from it and will be a better overall racer with his attitude
[/b]

I've been following this thread, and while i still don't know exactly who did what where, I am impressed with Mark's openess and fairness. Stand up stuff. Good on ya, Mark!

[charrbq]

I had to miss this race due to having my heart cut on and patched. It's a great way to lose weight, but I don't recommend it. However, I really had hoped to make it before hand.

I'd heard about the carnage...it seems like every couple of years the big one happens. In defense of the delay on the full course yellow. Having been on the radio before working nationals, there is a protocall that usually has to be maintained. Corners are the immediate eyes and ears. They call in the situation such as the Z's and give their opinion of what it will take to have a clear track. That goes to control and to the steward(s). A decision is made by them, relayed to control, relayed to the track workers, and the result is displayed in the appropriate manner of flags. As fast as this can work, it still takes time, and at race speeds, a lot of ground can be covered before action is taken. That said, after seeing the Z in the wall on the tape, I'd be looking for a double yellow. I wouldn't slow down on the rest of the track, but I'd have my eyes open.

The first time I noticed the full course was just before the oval, but the crashing cars might not have gotten it there. However, the lights were on and visable. I know it's no easier to suddenly slow a car down on the oval than it is to teleport my ITC car out of the way of a covy of Spec Miata's, but clearly, other people did. As to who hit who and who's fault it was, apparently no one knows.

Pure class was shown in assuming or denying guilt. That could've been ugly. It's done, so it's time to move on. But it's clear to most that some very suspect thinking was involved in the actions taken on the track prior to the incident. Thankfully the only things hurt were cars and egos.

[wpspeedracer]

Another intresting fact - do you know that where my wreck happened I was completely out of view of any corner worker. When I think back, had something serious happened - fire/injury- there is no way the corner workers can see anything in that portion of the track to offer assistance of any kind. It was quite some time until I saw the first corner worker. No fault of there's, Daytona has no provision for anyone to watch that portion of the track. During NASCAR races, the teams spotters have view of that area, however, it leaves us unwatched. Any comments/ideas/suggestions? Should we bring this up to ?whomever? to consider someone to be stationed there?

Mark

[Xian]

The first time I noticed the full course was just before the oval, but the crashing cars might not have gotten it there. However, the lights were on and visable. I know it's no easier to suddenly slow a car down on the oval than it is to teleport my ITC car out of the way of a covy of Spec Miata's, but clearly, other people did. As to who hit who and who's fault it was, apparently no one knows.

Pure class was shown in assuming or denying guilt. That could've been ugly. It's done, so it's time to move on. But it's clear to most that some very suspect thinking was involved in the actions taken on the track prior to the incident. Thankfully the only things hurt were cars and egos.
[/b]

That's where I picked up the double yellow... in fact all the drivers in front of me saw it and were waiving their free arm to signal drivers behind them that there was a quick slow down up ahead. Good, head's up driving by everyone out there!

I agree with you 100% on Mark's responses here. Although I don't know him, he seems like a real "stand up" sorta guy. Best of luck on the rebuild and I look forward to seeing you out on track soon

[charrbq]

Another intresting fact - do you know that where my wreck happened I was completely out of view of any corner worker. When I think back, had something serious happened - fire/injury- there is no way the corner workers can see anything in that portion of the track to offer assistance of any kind. It was quite some time until I saw the first corner worker.

Mark
[/b]

I've wondered about that before. It's clear that, even with the tunnel vision of the video camera, you were way out of sight with a fairly major accident. I suppose that the infield corner workers could've seen you...maybe. But it would've taken a while to get someone to you without the dispatch of a crash truck.

When I've raced at Texas Motor Speedway, we had workers (and TMS crash crews) in NASCAR 1,2,3,&4 just in case of such an incident, and it's only a 1.5 mile oval.

Last year they barbequed an EP Mazda in NASCAR 1. The course didn't go yellow until I was past the incident, and I was way at the back in the infield.

[steve s]

this is not to blame anyone,, sodon't take it personal whoever i may offend.
that said this is what happenned from my perspective ccar # 3 the lead it7 car and the car that was cut off and carried up the bank.
i was leading about 5or 6 cars we got the D. Y. on the infield we all slowed .the 3 lead cars in the group were 3 it-7. we all got on the banks [slowed pace]i was about quarter way up the bank and was coming down to the low line of the bank [ stupid of me to think that D.Y. no one would be passing because everyone in the group was in line and slow] out of the corner of my helmet [ door mirrors on the banks don't do much]i see someone passing me ,i try to pull up the bank but too late we hit and he take me up the bank . he was on the gas that is why he hit head on in the bank. ithink if mark was trying to slow down we would have hit and he would have gone to the flat on the track instead of climbing the banks [ it's pretty steep there]. on his way back down he almost took out the 2nd car in line the # 147 it-7. that's the green car that just escaped on the flat of the track.
that said i know who was around me at the D Y and mark was nowhere near me . maybe 4 th inline????? but i was aware of who was directly behind me b4 i came down the bank i loked in my inside rear view mirror and everyone was slowed and inline [lesson learned always expect the unexpected don't drop your guard even under D Y .]
blaming and pointing fingers would not make it right so it done, that's why i did not post anything since my last post . just trying to give some info so you guys can put an end to it,

[gprodracer]

Steve S.

Please re-read your post. Your first statement is "I'm not trying to blame anyone", then you proceed to blame Mark N. for the entire incident. I don't know either of you, but from Mark's posts, he has been willing to learn from, and accept any responsibility for the incident. To me, that shows a huge amount of humility and respect for all who were involved. Read his posts from the beginning of this thread until now. IMHO he has re-evaluated his role in this, and any mistake he made will not be repeated. That being said, there are 3 sides to every story, and now we have heard 2 of them. As racers, we are all sorry to hear about accidents because we all have to pay to fix (or replace) our cars. We can't replace people!
No one did anything to intentionally wreck anyone, and Mark has apologized for anything he may have done. Please give him the respect he has given you, and if you have any driving tips/advice for him, I have no doubt that he will consider them in the future.
I know you meant well in your post, just read it from his perspective.
Thanks,
Mark P. Larson