944S

[Zneed4speed]

Seems as if the real data from the Porsche guys validates the process. Many thanks.
[/b]

OK Chris and Russ did how much did Andy pay you to throw in your 2 cents?
Yes I'm kidding.

Andy, I did not intend to even hint that the ITAC process didn't work when I mentioned the S weight.
I appreciate what the ITAC does, but I wasn't even thinking of the ITAC when I posted.
I would like to think that the ITAC has open minds and that all input is given due consideration though.

[lateapex911]

One thing to remeber about the 944 at the Glen. Thats a pretty well sorted effort, and Chris Camedella has like a gazillion laps there. He lives a half hour away.

Also, Kip V has been known to get nearly every cars he's sat in around the track faster than nearly anyone else in that car. He's no rookie.

I think you should make some side bets with those guys about who sets a faster lap at the ARRCs..

[it7rx739]

Hey,guys I got 1 FOR SALE 88 944 S street car red very good shape
PH 770-720-2039 I'M in GA

[wpspeedracer]

Not to dilute this conversation, but , I see that Kip V will be at Daytona this weekend - I am curious to see how a well prepared - sorted S will do on a High Horsepower track against Irish Mike, the Speed Source RX-7's, and the couple of Bimmers there.... It will give me something to work towards. I'm sure there is another second or two in my S with a better driver, however, I'll be looking at pull-away speed on the straights and banks where usually those cars out pull me and leave me in the dust just from shear horsepower (and power to weight ratio) which is what this thread originally was started on.....

mark

[RussJones]

"So far this year the 944s has won every dry race in the NE Region this year except for the chicane/chicane course at NHIS" quote Rob.

Sorry wrong, Tim Estes won in his RX7 memorial day weekend, and Jeff (Nicks old RX7)was winning with 2 laps to go (pig roast) when he made a mistake and spun, I was behind him and NOT catching up. No matter how you want to spin this, im sorry but the class (ITS) now in a well preparred car is any one's race. Its been proved and lap times are dead-nuts even.

Russ

[JeffYoung]

323, 325, 240z, RX7, 944s, hell even a Corrado -- ITS is looking great this year.

[Fastfred92]

323, 325, 240z, RX7, 944s, hell even a Corrado -- ITS is looking great this year.
[/b]

Sold my VR6 too soon..............

[JeffYoung]

Is this the Autotechnic guy who had the webpage with the subframe welds and seam welds on the 325is?

[zracre]

Ok I have a friend with a 944 I think of 1987 vintage (S?) that would probably be a great donor car or race project. I know it drove to his house but is in need of lots of TLC...the body looks straight but the interior is a wreck. I didn't put it in classifieds because it is not mine but I know he desparately wants it out of his garage...he has a new GTO. PM me if inerested or with any questions...I will supply you with his number and answer as best as I can. I think he will take $1500 for it. my email is zracre at aol dot com

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's the pennies in the loafers that drive the grid girls wild.

[Andy Bettencourt]

If you have to ask that then you haven't be listening at all.
The feedings will stop.

[Fastfred92]

My .02 is that the e46 will not yield as large of a gain as the e36 cars did, even with motec b/c the cam profiles are much milder in the 323 e46 car. I don't think the 30% you say can be found in the M50 engines can be duplicated in the e46.

The only aspect of a 944S that sucks is the rear torsion bars, everything else looks to be a nice package!

[dj10]

My .02 is that the e46 will not yield as large of a gain as the e36 cars did, even with motec b/c the cam profiles are much milder in the 323 e46 car. I don't think the 30% you say can be found in the M50 engines can be duplicated in the e46.
[/b]

And your 2 cents is based on what?

[Fastfred92]

And your 2 cents is based on what?
[/b]

Simple DJ, BMW had to put the e46 323 in a lower power market relative to the 328 which had similar power output of the old e36 325's in order not to compete with each other. The gurus gave the 2.5 unit milder cam profiles than the 2.8 had, so even with the dual vanos system you only get but so much cam lift and duration. Then the OBD II injection demands some aftermarket ( motec ) system to reach any maximum potential.

[ChrisCamadella]

My .02 is that the e46 will not yield as large of a gain as the e36 cars did, even with motec b/c the cam profiles are much milder in the 323 e46 car. I don't think the 30% you say can be found in the M50 engines can be duplicated in the e46.

The only aspect of a 944S that sucks is the rear torsion bars, everything else looks to be a nice package!
[/b]

I'm not sure I understand what sucks about the rear torsion bars. They're just as effective as coil springs, they have a much lower unsprung mass, and they're much closer to the ground.

Hmmm...

[Fastfred92]

I'm not sure I understand what sucks about the rear torsion bars. They're just as effective as coil springs, they have a much lower unsprung mass, and they're much closer to the ground.

Hmmm...
[/b]

The part that sucks is that they are more difficult to change and the spring rates are limited by the bar diameter or by whats on the market vs. a $50 coil spring( which should be allowed in IT, but that is a different story.) Hey I am all for the 944S, it will be a great car when in the hands of you guys that know what you are doing with them, good luck.

[lateapex911]

Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, as you are far more knowledgable in this area, but I think the issues with torsion bars in this form of racing are the difficulties in easy swapping. They are harder to swap than many coil spring setups, and corner weighting is more difficult as there is no adjuster. or am I (hopefully) incorrecct. I put Wevo SPSs on my 911 which make corner weighting a breeze, but thats not legal for IT, is it? (Or do the 944s have the limited adjustability found on certain year 911s as well?)

[ChrisCamadella]

Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, as you are far more knowledgable in this area, but I think the issues with torsion bars in this form of racing are the difficulties in easy swapping. They are harder to swap than many coil spring setups, and corner weighting is more difficult as there is no adjuster. or am I (hopefully) incorrecct. I put Wevo SPSs on my 911 which make corner weighting a breeze, but thats not legal for IT, is it? (Or do the 944s have the limited adjustability found on certain year 911s as well?)
[/b]

The suspension arrangement in the rear of a 944 is adjustable for ride height, camber, and toe. It does take some experience and a few tricks to get them all right at the same time, but once you've done it a few times, it's really no problem.

It IS a total pain to swap them out - you have to remove the entire rear suspension from the car, so in that way, they are a pain. Fortunately, we don't do that too often!

Cheers,

[latebrake]

The suspension arrangement in the rear of a 944 is adjustable for ride height, camber, and toe. It does take some experience and a few tricks to get them all right at the same time, but once you've done it a few times, it's really no problem.

It IS a total pain to swap them out - you have to remove the entire rear suspension from the car, so in that way, they are a pain. Fortunately, we don't do that too often!

Cheers,
[/b]

After changing my torsion bars out the hard way once I asked an old 924 racer from back in the day. Now I can pull mine out of the car and juggle them and put them back in under 30 min. Thats a lie ,I cant juggle. The D production cars had camber boxes on the the torsion bar carrier to afford more neg camber on the rear wheels. Cant do this in IT but properly made eccentric bushings on the trailing arms on the torsion bar carrier will give you 4 degrees of neg camber. You wont need that much. On my production car I could change the torision bars for ride height faster than doing it with the eccentric bolts.
Lawrence

[JeffYoung]

Vaughan, I would consider that a disadvantage (inability to quickly change rear springs). Perhaps teh ONLY advantage of a live rear axle like that in my car is that I can change rears in 3 minutes. For a test day, in roughing in the stiffness of the rear -- which is key, given that it's where RWD cars put the power done -- this is huge.

You guys can overcome it, it just takes far more time.

Rob -- ABS farked up E36 brakes? 275 hp Porsches 944s? 200 lb reduction to the 323? website advertising CLEARLY illegal E36 subframe bracing and seam welding?

I'm losing ya man, I really am. What planet were you from again?