Any Updates on Head and Neck Restraints from SCCA?

**Jeremy Billiel** · 07-11-2006, 09:24 PM

So after seeing another serious accident happen at NHIS this weekend, I am all but reminded that I need to stop waiting and buy something. I have heard both sides of the Isaac and HANS arguements and I have read SCCA's response. Are there any updates on SCCA changing to accept Isaac or any other manufactor not currently SFI approved?

Can anyone add any updates?

**shwah** · 07-11-2006, 10:27 PM

I have heard rumor that sfi 31 will be required soon. I like my ISAAC but will be budgeting for a HANS in the next year or so.

**lateapex911** · 07-12-2006, 01:06 AM

I dunno........

Some random thoughts...

The saftey commitee is newly formed, and needs to get the final proposal to the BoD pretty quickly if it's to be approved in time for next year. I have zero inside information on this, but I hope they are slow in that task! Currently we're under a "recommendation", and nothing more, so the Hutchens or the Isaac are fine as well as the Hans...or nothing.

I guess legally, its good practice for organizations to follow what the "standard setter" in the industry does...and in this case, the SCCA is the "standard setter". So it's not under any time pressure to act in any specific direction, at least from what I've heard. (But hey, I'm no legal beagle, so I could be all wrong)

I certainly hope that we stay the course. When ONE device is mandated, it's not a good thing.

**ddewhurst** · 07-12-2006, 08:20 AM

If the SCCA forces the members to use the HANS, the next thing the SCCA will do is force the members to add a razzel dazzel lateral head support to our seats (because the HANS reduces minimal lateral forces) or the SCCA will force members to buy the NASCAR style seat with all the hoop-de stuff.

**dj10** · 07-12-2006, 09:09 AM

If the SCCA forces the members to use the HANS, the next thing the SCCA will do is force the members to add a razzel dazzel lateral head support to our seats (because the HANS reduces minimal lateral forces) or the SCCA will force members to buy the NASCAR style seat with all the hoop-de stuff.
[/b]

I'll wear a Hans when autocrossers have to wear them! Those cones can really scuff up the armoral on your tires.

**x-ring** · 07-12-2006, 09:18 AM

I think it's pretty bad that they want to mandate an item that offers crap in the way of laterial support, and then mandate a right side net to try make up for the shortfall of the first item.

David is probably right, next thing you know we'll see a 'recomendation' that we get new halo seats...

(Sorry for the rant, I'm kind of crabby this morning)

**JamesB** · 07-12-2006, 09:24 AM

I thought the verbage recomending the side net said it was not needed if your seat had lateral support.

**gsbaker** · 07-12-2006, 12:02 PM

The BOD meets in August.

I doubt the SCCA wants to have egg on its face--ala BMWCCA--so it will probably take a pass on an '07 mandate and wait 'til the spec changes.

**RacerBill** · 07-12-2006, 12:24 PM

Gregg: Do I read between the lines that you believe that the SFI spec is going to change in the near future?

Bill "fingers crossed" Stevens

**gsbaker** · 07-12-2006, 01:00 PM

Bill,

Personally, I believe it will change in the future, but I wouldn't say it will be the "near" future. Clearly, sanctioning bodies do not like the egress clause in the SFI spec, and Joey Hand getting stuck in his fuel-drenched BMW (of all things) was the icing on the cake.

I can see sanctioning bodies ignoring that portion of the SFI spec, mandating the performance called for in 38.1, and handling the egress issue separately. That's the best of all worlds, for everyone.

Once that happens, SFI will change the spec.

**gsbaker** · 07-12-2006, 05:30 PM

BTW, we want to thank all the Isaac users out there, epecially those at IT.com where interest flared before we even had the Web site up and running. We understand the entire "approval" issue has been disconcerting, but want you to know that things seem to be trending in our favor.

Hang in there. It's like building a race car: A lot of time and a lot of effort, but the results are worth it.

**Daryl DeArman** · 07-12-2006, 06:41 PM

Hanging Mode=ON

I must be in the dark...Joey Hand (another ex-Karter from California) what happened? Is he okay?

On edit--I must be really slow today (slower than normal).

Here is a quote from an post crash interview with Hand from another site:

When it was all said and done, I came to a stop upside down. I was still in the seat, and the first thing I noticed was my right shoe was off. I blew my right shoe off and my right glove somehow. I unbuckled myself and fell down out of the car onto the roof. There was fuel running down my back and into the roof of the car, and oil and stuff. The corner workers were yelling to get out of the car because it was going to catch fire, and I couldn’t get out because my HANS device was stuck in the window net, and the window was smaller than normal.

I went back in and tried to get my helmet off and then they called me back out again, and then they finally got me out with my HANS and everything on.
[/b]

**gsbaker** · 07-12-2006, 08:29 PM

Daryl,

Joey had a big ride...

http://www.break.com/index/joey_hand_destr...w_in_crash.html

He couldn't get out because of his SFI certified HANS device...

http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6724

**ddewhurst** · 07-13-2006, 08:13 AM

Was there a Fastrack breif on a potential date that a H & N restraint per the SIF spec is a shall ? Which Fastrack ?

**Roy Dean** · 07-13-2006, 08:18 AM

He couldn't get out because of his SFI certified HANS device...

http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6724
[/b]

He is quoted as saying:

they finally got me out with my HANS and everything on[/b]

So it's not true that "he couldn't get out because of his SFI certified HANS device", because if it was he'd still be in there. A more accurate statement would be "couldn't get out as quickly because of his SFI certified HANS device"

Later in that artical, he is quoted again:

Q: What about the HANS Device?

HAND: That's number two for me and the HANS Device. That's the second time the HANS Device saved me. They said there's no way I could have survived the impacts without the HANS Device. It saved me again. In (a Toyota Atlantic car at) Milwaukee it saved me and here it saved me. I won't drive without it if I have a chance. Not many people can say that they hit hard enough to have a HANS Device save them twice. Whatever, we'll go on.
[/b]

**Jeremy Billiel** · 07-13-2006, 08:53 AM

We all can agree that there is no "perfect" system. Buy any of them that will save your life is important. When looking at purchasing and device I tend to lean towards the Isaac, but I also don't want to make an investment and be screwed next year, etc...

**planet6racing** · 07-13-2006, 08:56 AM

He is quoted as saying:
So it's not true that "he couldn't get out because of his SFI certified HANS device", because if it was he'd still be in there. A more accurate statement would be "couldn't get out as quickly because of his SFI certified HANS device"
[/b]

Actually, the more pertinent part is "They finally got me out..." As in, Joey could not, by himself, get out of the car with his helmet, HANS, and whatever else still on.

**x-ring** · 07-13-2006, 09:01 AM

So then an even more accurate statement would be "couldn't get out without help because of his SFI certified HANS".

**JamesB** · 07-13-2006, 09:19 AM

I think his inablity to get out was not just the HANS getting caught in the net. It was a culmination of issues. The window opening was smaller I dont know by the force of the crash or just the cage design, but if your not used to getting out of an opening smaller then when your usual entrance and exit of the car then who knows if the HANS was more then an issue beyond getting caught in the net.

Right now as the 07 season rules (my season ends before that rule takes effect.) I am limited to 3 choices, and sadly noone locally sells two of the brands so I been in a holding pattern. I might just have to take a road trip one day to a place that does carry the other brands. I am a try before you buy kind of person, and the GCR limits my choices for next year.

**gsbaker** · 07-13-2006, 10:46 AM

So then an even more accurate statement would be "couldn't get out without help because of his SFI certified HANS".
[/b]

Agreed.

With respect to the window size, I believe Joey was referring to the fact that the window opening was made smaller by the beefed up structure, which did an impressive job. As you can see from the second image here, it was nearly untouched.

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