NHIS weekend

[7racing]

Victor, thanks for posting an update. Very glad to hear you are reasonably OK. News was rather sporadic and sketchy on Sunday so I think a lot of people were anxious to hear something positive (I know I was). Please call if you need anything and get well soon!

You are now my poster child for a head and neck restraint system. I use an ISAAC, but I have gone out a few times in other cars without it. I think it's easy enough to swap from car to car and will most likely do that now (though enduros make it tough, with other drivers and such).

I can remember back to the first years of NHIS and flagging for a driver's school at station 7. A FV went off the exit of 6 and went airborne into the trees. He came to rest in between a boulder and a tree without a scratch. Pretty lucky SOB (Fos, if you are reading, you are a lucky SO. But, back then, there wasn't any sort of barrier before the trees.

Last year I went off in a rental Miata and did everything I could to stop. I didn't get as far out as Victor or the FV, but I also don't remember a jersey barrier wall before the trees. Was there really such a thing?

Jeremy

[lateapex911]

Wow. Thanks for checking in Victor. Glad to hear that your injuries aren't worse, but sorry that they are as bad as they are. That brace is your best friend /worst enemy right now! Hang in there!

[WIZARD Racing]

but I also don't remember a jersey barrier wall before the trees. Was there really such a thing?

Jeremy
[/b]

I could swear there was one. Then again, my brain is a bit mushy from getting to work at 3am. Well maybe there should be one. A head on shot at a tree is not a good option. I'd rather a side slap on a wall.

Victor, great to hear from you. Get well fast.

[BobsAuto]

Victor, So glad to have seen your post and know you are home. I stuck close to the phone in case your wife called to say you were staying. I am glad I was able to stop in and see you and was really reassured as to how well you looked considering what a horrific crash you had. Remember, call if you need anything and feel free to call for a place to sleep if you want to come up for the next race weekend to watch. You have our number.
As for you, Raymond and Stephen, I definately think a Hahns should be added to your Christmas list unless I hit the lottery first.

[FastM3]

Victor

GET WELL SOON. Take the time and heal correctly.

The car doesn't look too bad...Most of it looks like it will just buff out.

That and a few hundred hours with some hammers and it should be good as new...... :P

Track safety: Maybe we can organize a group walk during a lunch break or after race completion some weekend ????? Then let the observers list their concerns in prority order and have that reviewed by SCCA board/safety stewards. Personally I would like us to use the South Chicane more often, but it also needs some modification to make a safer exit onto the 2 / 3 straight.

Anyway....great to hear you are doing better. If you can give us any tips about belts and Hans setup that would be great. I wonder about the belts being able to slip off the Hans. Any thoughts????


Take Care of Yourself !!!!

Phil and Linda K
SSM ITA 88 Miata

[lateapex911]

Track safety: Maybe we can organize a group walk during a lunch break or after race completion some weekend ????? Then let the observers list their concerns in prority order and have that reviewed by SCCA board/safety stewards.
[/b]

First, reports have been very sketchy and conflicting, but there were reports that there WAS a barrier in front of the tree. Secondly, it' is my understanding that tracks ARE inspected before sanction numbers are granted. I'm not sure of the details of the process, but I recall that there IS a process in place. Dick P or Brian M probably have more details.

Personally I would like us to use the South Chicane more often...........
[/b]

Yechhh! barf!! phooey!!!!! Banish the thought!!!!! I think the south chicane .....ummm...well....it sucks! It removes at least two passing opportunities, and removes a skill set from the required package a driver needs at NHIS, plus it sterilizes the charachter of the place. The NASCAR turns 1&2 are the signature parts of the track. The south chicane doubles the Mickey mouse aspects of the track. It's bad enough as it is!

... If you can give us any tips about belts and Hans setup that would be great. I wonder about the belts being able to slip off the Hans. Any thoughts????

Phil and Linda K
SSM ITA 88 Miata
[/b]

www.headrestraint.org is a non commercial site (started by a frequent contributor to this board) devoted to providing data to help choose a H&N restraint system. www.isaacdirect.com is the Isaac devices site that has a lot of data and crash test videos as well. And there are others as well.

[biovic]

QUOTE

... If you can give us any tips about belts and Hans setup that would be great. I wonder about the belts being able to slip off the Hans. Any thoughts????


Thanks for your thoughts on my recovery.
For tips, I use the HANS specific Schroth belts, with the 2 inch shoulder straps, which do not slip off the HANS collar since they are narrower. I did not have the new 2 inch lap belt approved this year, but I think that would have helped keep the whole belt system tighter to my pelvis. I really like the Schroth product, easy to use and excellent quality, but I know they are a little more expensive than others, but obviously now I know they are worth it, along with other safety equipment we use. Of course, I also know that I have to throw the belts out now since being involved in the accident. Oh well, now I won't have to buy any new tires for the season, so it's a wash. ;-)

Victor

[RKramden]

First, reports have been very sketchy and conflicting, but there were reports that there WAS a barrier in front of the tree. Secondly, it' is my understanding that tracks ARE inspected before sanction numbers are granted. I'm not sure of the details of the process, but I recall that there IS a process in place. Dick P or Brian M probably have more details.
[/b]

Lets make this not sketchy at all.

Alice, you remember Alice, was the first one to get to the accident. She said that the barrier was knocked over and burried under a pile of tires, hence the worker at that flag station (7) could not tell that it had been flipped over.

With respect to inspections, as I understand it, it works like this:

Tracks recieve a periodic inspection by the likes of Alan Wilson, something like every 5 years. As part of that inspection there is a plan to upgrade safety over that period if it is needed, and if the track does not make progress against that plan, then they get removed from the list of approved tracks. The executive steward for the division (Jack H., currently) has a folder on each track and in there is it's safety plan.

So, for example, Blackhawk didn't meet the plan a number years back (they allegedly did nothing) and got all the sanctions for that track pulled untill they actually started to do something about safety.

Another example is the chicane at Lime Rock. It's not a configuration that is inspected for SCCA, and so we cannot run it, as it is not approved.

There are other parts of the system that can get some sanctions that have been issued canceled, but they are fairly drastic.


For each race, the safety steward is supposed to make a track inspection and assure that things like huge potholes get filled or missing barriers replaced before the event starts. (GCR 6.23.1.D) This includes things like checking that Armco that has been repaired has the overlaps facing in the right direction. They are also supposed to act if there are areas that develop problems during an avent.

If the safety steward is really bent out of shape over something that is hazardous, they can call one phone number and have the event canceled. (Basically, it tubes the insurance.) I have never known this to actually happen. The same is true for SOLO events as well.


As for items at NHIS, I already have a list things that would be good from a workers perspective, which is different that what a driver would be concerned with. An example is that the hole at turn 11 isn't on my list, but I'll bet Ray B. the IV would like to see it fixed. If you do make up a list, don't just say what is wrong, but include what you would like to see done to change each item.

[FastM3]

Hey Victor

Thanks for the thoughts on the belts. Linda and I use the newer Hans with the lip to hold the belt, but we have 3 inch belts and that's my worry. I guess I will investigate the Schroth 2 inchers with Joe and the guys at HMS. That's exactly what I wanted to find out. Do you use a 5 point or a 6 point. Would a formula type of 6 point work in our cars. They work more like a climbers harness and hold the legs in place rather that just pulling the lap belt down to hold in in place.



Sorry to have caused issues on the other points. These are just one competitors thoughts. Not meant to cause a sh.. storm

Safety.... We should all take a look at the Isaacs video really closely and get it so you can see the exact impact point and repeat it a gazzillion times. I don't think the outcome would be very safe. It let's the neck rotate way forward and the head goes a long ways. Then look at a video of the Hans..I made my choice after watching these.

Tracks...Sorry but I am a show me kind of guy and I think we as a group of drivers should be aware of the dangers. Lets take that walk so we can see what we want to stay away from. Also I think our combined knowledge can help the stewards or track people or whoever make better decisions. I will bring my own shovel to fill the hole at 11. Any other volunteers, Truely up for this if the track gave us permission.
Really, I was amazed to see that hole. It really should have been checked, filled before our racing started.
Somebody have some stone dust to use??? It is in a REALLY DANGEROUS status right now. It can break a ball joint and maybe contribute to a roll over.

Heck the experts said the Boston tunnels are safe.

Limerock....At a recent SCDA event I spent some time looking at walls of rubber lined tires as well as the new uphill deal. It was not all that reassuring.

NHIS.......How many of us have hit the wall in the oval.. does not seem to show any skill to hold the pedal down. Just need big B..ls.

Totally agree that the chicane is not all that great. It has it's own safety issues. I would like to see the entrance back onto the straight be a much shallower angle. The only way to do that would be to change the right hand portion and somehow pave more of the grassy area to change this angle as the apex of two cannot be moved due to the tunnel.


Just my ideas

Again...Victor Take Care...We are all with you.


Phil K
88 SM/SSM/ITA

[bluehonda66]

Victor its great to hear your back home and on the mend- sorry your car is trashed but thats easy to replace. I followed you for the whole race ( accept when you went off ) and as I told Anthony your car looked WICKED!!! loose- going thru 1&2, it looked like a 'world of outlaws' setup, you had your wheels
turned to the right enough so I could see it from my car,and the back was hanging way out. I have to suspect you had a suspension failure brewing at that point- and coming up thru the carosel/T6 (whatever)
the car seemed to go loose again and slid sideways past the rummble strip into the dirt where you obviously
couldn't turn it back down. I can't tell you what you felt in the car but when you feel up to it, look over the right rear corner, not that it matters now but for future reference. I'm glad your relatively OK, hope to see you back at the track ASAP.



Dom V
Honda Civic # 66 ITA

[Tkczecheredflag]

Victor - Again, glad you are on the mend. Anything we can do to help, you know how to reach me. Looked like you were going to smokin' my doors on the start of the race - I thought it was going to be a long day.

It was very somber at your paddock as we were trying to sort out your stuff and get you packed up. Poor Noam was beside himself. One of my passes under yellow coming out of the bowl they were working on you on the roof - I thought they were putting in an airway - You gave us a bad scare. Heard they took you to track medical before the hospital and was sure I was wrong about the airway. Get well soon.

Tracks...Sorry but I am a show me kind of guy and I think we as a group of drivers should be aware of the dangers. Lets take that walk so we can see what we want to stay away from. Also I think our combined knowledge can help the stewards or track people or whoever make better decisions. I will bring my own shovel to fill the hole at 11. Any other volunteers, Truely up for this if the track gave us permission.
Really, I was amazed to see that hole. It really should have been checked, filled before our racing started.
Somebody have some stone dust to use??? It is in a REALLY DANGEROUS status right now. It can break a ball joint and maybe contribute to a roll over.

Phil K
88 SM/SSM/ITA
[/b]

In the ITC race Brian M said he went into the hole and bent his camber plate on his Bunny. Cost him the race. I agree this area needs to be fixed. We have seen a couple of cars end up on their roof at T-11. I do not think that is much to ask for.

[JLawton]

In the ITC race Brian M said he went into the hole and bent his camber plate on his Bunny. Cost him the race. I agree this area needs to be fixed. We have seen a couple of cars end up on their roof at T-11. I do not think that is much to ask for.
[/b]

That hole has been there for years (but maybe to a lesser extent) I remember taking the ride in my ITS car, catching some air and ending up sideways in NASCAR 4. Seems like it would be a simple fix..........

I also remember sitting up in T&S during the April school and seeing the bottom of a Spec Miata that was launched. Pretty cool to watch, but glad I'm not the one who had to fix it!!

[biovic]

Hey Victor

Thanks for the thoughts on the belts. Linda and I use the newer Hans with the lip to hold the belt, but we have 3 inch belts and that's my worry. I guess I will investigate the Schroth 2 inchers with Joe and the guys at HMS. That's exactly what I wanted to find out. Do you use a 5 point or a 6 point. Would a formula type of 6 point work in our cars. They work more like a climbers harness and hold the legs in place rather that just pulling the lap belt down to hold in in place.
Again...Victor Take Care...We are all with you.
Phil K
88 SM/SSM/ITA
[/b]

Phil, I had a 6 point set-up, 2 sub straps bolted to the floor below/under the seat. I had no abdomen or groin injuries whatsoever.

If you or anyone else would like to send provate messages to me, feel free to do so using the IT.com mail feature, or email me at [email protected].
If you feel that others may benefit from the discussion, please feel free to continue to post on this site and thread. I don't want to monopolize the NHIS weeekend thread, but I have even learned things such as barriers, other holes (been there at 11/12 also, and that Needs to b fixed for sure).
Victor

[RSTPerformance]

I went off into the turn 11 hole on both saturday (major driver error, mybad) and again on Sunday (partial suspension failure). The hit on Saturday launched the car 3.5 feet into the air and when the car landed it bottomed out and ripped fuel lines off the car spreading fuel all over the track... not safe for me or others and easily could have been avoidable with proper repairs to the track. On Sunday the car launched yet again this time landing on the nose... bent lots of suspension parts and pushed the oil pan almoast into the crank shaft... motor and suspension (including camber plates) are junk. I was out not only for that race but also the next 2 race NER weekends as my budget can't afford major repairs like that (not the tracks issue I know, but fustratig).

I totaly agree that both incidents were my fault, however thier is a major safety concern IMO. That turn is probably the most dangerouse in the Northeast and thier are no walls to hit!!! I went to the chief steward and addressed my concerns, he imediatly brought me to someone who works with the track managment to discuss. We shall see if it is fixed at RAL. If it isn't I will again adress my concerns and I stronly suggest that anyone in the 6 hour enduro addresses them also and/or completely avoids making a mistake in that turn, IT WILL COST YOU THE RACE, no questions asked.

Raymond

PS: Victor, glad to see your doing well and posting a lot more again!!!

[Ed Funk]

(oopps! This is from StephF....I didn't realize the hubby was logged in....good thing I wasn't giving someone crap! )
Let's all pack 5 gallon pails for the next race. We can do a bucket brigade and fill that frapping canyon up!
It'll likely be quicker that waiting on NHIS.
I skated along the edge in April going, "Oh #$%^!" multiple times. I'm surprised no one has ended up upside down from it yet.
Hey Victor....glad you are around to tell war stories from this weekend. Sorry that happened, and hope to see you back soon!

[WIZARD Racing]

That hole has been there for years (but maybe to a lesser extent) I remember taking the ride in my ITS car, catching some air and ending up sideways in NASCAR 4. Seems like it would be a simple fix..........

I also remember sitting up in T&S during the April school and seeing the bottom of a Spec Miata that was launched. Pretty cool to watch, but glad I'm not the one who had to fix it!!
[/b]

The guy using my car at that school had to avoid the ITC Rabbit and ran the grassy root. He missed the NHIS grand canyon fortunately.

I went 'off-roading' at T11. My choice was to hit the crater, I mean hole, or give it more right turn. I opted to go more to the right. At which time I relocated about a 3' x 4' section of sod about 20 feet with my new air dam. I'm sure T&S had a good time watching me. I know I had some air time.

The hole at T-11, and the area outside of the bowl exit are both really rough. The fact that the tree is open to a straight shot, like Victor took, coming out of the bowl doesn't seem 'safe' to me.

[biovic]

Hi all. So I went to the orthopeadic doctor today, and the spine is stable, no surgery needed, just rest to let the bones heal in the normal 6 weeks time. I get an MRI in a few weeks to make sure the discs and joints are still fine. Be back to work part time in a week or so.

So I reviewed my video, and it didn't tell me anything that I didn't already remember (by the way, the video shut off on impact, which I'm glad, I didn't really want to see it).
I didn't have problems in Turn 6/7 all weekend. As Dom mentioned, I was sliding through the oval more than normal onthat lap, the back end seemed loose. As I came through the bowl (6), I was following Brandon, and think I took turned in too late. The car was sliding fairly wide, I couldn't keep the tires on the track and dropped the right 2 in the gravel, and as you all know, they are large ruts just off the track. (Still don't know yet if something broke because the car is still in NH). The car continued to go off the racing surface and now with all 4 wheels in gravel and grass I tried to 'steer' back on course, but a second later all I saw was that damn tree getting closer. I hit hard, probably 60-65mph, and the car just stopped! No bouncing or deflecting to the side or back, just stopped flat. I could feel my lower back/torso go forward on impact (nothing else), and then the pain, heavy pressure feeling.
I tried to radio my crew, but my earpiece got disconnected, although they could hear me.
Obviously the 2 corner workers directly across couldn't understand my thumbs-down signal, that I was not ok. It seemed like a long time before the workers got to me, but they were great. They opted to cut the roof off the car to get me out flat and straight, I'm glad they did, because I could have had more back damage if they moved me or I tried to get out myself.
Kudos to the workers (although I hear some improvements in driver/wokrer communication are in order). Also, I agree with the condition of the surface just off track in 7 and in 11/12. And please cut down that damn tree, or put up Armco, please.

Regards,
Victor

[Doc Bro]

I agree with you Victor, The tree should go or be better protected. I'm glad you are well....it's been a rough year for you my friend.

I don't think the tree should go until you carve "Victor was here" into the trunk.

That'll teach it!

R

[RSTPerformance]

I don't think the tree should go until you carve "Victor was here" into the trunk.
[/b]

lol... that is great!!!

Victor glad your going to be ok!!!

Raymond

[TimM ITB]

Kind of "off topic" from most of the previous posts, and this concerns the Memorial Day weekend - not the Pig Roast weekend, so really off topic actually, but I just found the NERRC points listed on the www.ner.org site, and was curious..........wasn't the Memorial Day weekend listed as a "triple NERRC and double NARRC" race weekend? The NERRC points only show 2 races for that weekend?? Not a big deal, but if anyone can shed some light, that would be great.

Thanks,

Tim M