NHIS weekend

[BobsAuto]

Victor, I am so glad the prognosis on your back is so good. I have been talking with some workers who are working the NASCAR event this weekend (not as volunteers, but have jobs) and we all agree that something needs to be done with the sides of the road course. We also agree that the only one that can and possibly would see to it that something is done is Bette French as she's the only real SCCA friendly one left on the management team. Victor, I would suggest that you her, tell her about your injuries, the prognosis, etc. and ask her what could be done to prevent such an accident from happening again. She is definately an empathetic ear to injured SCCA members. THEN, I would have workers, drivers, etc. make a list of easy, low cost ideas (must appeal to the Bahre's pocketbook) for fixing some of the problems. The south chicane is a costly move, but filling in the holes is not so costly. And even volunteer to do the labor as Steph mentioned. I think it actually could get achieved by the next event. (Don't know about the armco, but maybe better tire walls and barriers might work for a while.)
Hopefully, I will get up to the area in turn 6-7 this weekend with my handicap shuttle and take a peak and see what else I can come up with.

[RKramden]

THEN, I would have workers, drivers, etc. make a list of easy, low cost ideas (must appeal to the Bahre's pocketbook) for fixing some of the problems. The south chicane is a costly move, but filling in the holes is not so costly. And even volunteer to do the labor as Steph mentioned. I think it actually could get achieved by the next event.[/b]

I'll bring a wheelbarrow, a cement tub, one or two 5 gallon buckets to haul the water, and other "implements of destruction." (2x4's, hoe, rakes, shovels, trowels, picks, hammers, nails, saws, stakes...)

Just say the word.

Some stone, some sand, and some portland cement, (and maybe some re-enforcing wire or re-bar) and we are good to go, provided Bette says OK.

Also, I have found that Wanda, Bette's assistant, is very pro club racing as well and a delight to deal with.

[StephF]

Just say the word.

Some stone, some sand, and some portland cement, (and maybe some re-enforcing wire or re-bar) and we are good to go, provided Bette says OK.

[/b]

Are you talking about fixing a hole, or making someone a new set of shoes?

[RKramden]

Are you talking about fixing a hole, or making someone a new set of shoes?

[/b]

I don't think filling the hole with dirt will cure it. Filling it with dirt would be a temp patch and just get beat out of there again.

Maybe a set of very agressive alligator teeth that you wouldn't want to race over but might not bend up a rabbits suspension is more like what is needed.

More than the teeth at turn three, less than the ramp at turn 10.

And maybe a new set of shoes for a steward.

[Ed Funk]

Concrete shoes??!! Which steward??

[RKramden]

Hi all. So I went to the orthopeadic doctor today, and the spine is stable, no surgery needed, just rest to let the bones heal in the normal 6 weeks time. I get an MRI in a few weeks to make sure the discs and joints are still fine.[/b]

Great news. Glad things are looking good going forward. Maybe next year, I'll bring another NARRC trophy to your house.

I hit hard, probably 60-65mph, and the car just stopped! No bouncing or deflecting to the side or back, just stopped flat. I could feel my lower back/torso go forward on impact (nothing else), and then the pain, heavy pressure feeling.
I tried to radio my crew, but my earpiece got disconnected, although they could hear me.
Obviously the 2 corner workers directly across couldn't understand my thumbs-down signal, that I was not ok.[/b]

I looked at some pictures I have of the area that I took two months ago and there was one row of tires in front of the jersey barrier in front of the tree. Maybe there should be two rows, bolted together.

The workers took your had signal as waving at them, saying you were OK. It's hard to tell what you were signialing from the other side of the track, maybe 60 or more feet away. If you really want to get their attention, do NOTHING. Sit there and DON'T MOVE a bit. The worker will say that you are not moving, and massive panic will set in, and everything will get sent to visit you. Everything. Quickly.

It seemed like a long time before the workers got to me, but they were great.[/b]

The workers at the flag station couldn't cross the track as cars were flying past. The worker (Alice) ran from the previous station around the outside of the bowl to reach you. That is why it took the minute or two for her to get to you. It is farther than I would ever want to run. About the time she got there, the Fire/Rescue truck was there as well.

They opted to cut the roof off the car to get me out flat and straight, I'm glad they did, because I could have had more back damage if they moved me or I tried to get out myself. Kudos to the workers (although I hear some improvements in driver/wokrer communication are in order). Also, I agree with the condition of the surface just off track in 7 and in 11/12. And please cut down that damn tree, or put up Armco, please.[/b]

Dropping the window net, or waving, or making a hand jesture is taken as saying you are OK. If you want to say you are hurt, just do nothing. That is what they teach at drivers school, as I understand it. (I havent gone to a DS in a long time.) Signal if you are OK, do nothing if you are not.

Can I say this one more time so EVERYONE gets the message? If you are hurt, do NOTHING. That will cause a whole bunch of panic and get you the most help the fastest, unless you are an ex-flagger, and can signal that:

• you are injured,
• you want an ambulance, and
• you want it now.

Yes, that are three distinct hand signals, and if you are injured, you are not likely able to do them, so just sit there doing NOTHING.

Well, in any case, I'm glad you are going to be OK.

[BobsAuto]

Now all of you have to decide who is going to talk to Bette. It should be a small group, imo of stewards, workers, and drivers. Actually, Kathy Barnes would be the most powerful voice and one that Bette would definately listen to.

[biovic]

Response to RKramden.

Yes, DO NOTHING is the best option, and I agree, to a point, in most cases. My first thought was, oh shit, I'm hurt, kind of panicking, I need someone to know I'm hurt, I see people so I'll try to signal to them that I'm NOT ok. (didn't work, I know that). I did think about not moving at all, and that would get people's attention, but I had to move around a bit because I was in pain (had to kind of arch my back and move a little or I would go stir crazy, yes even for 2 minutes). Second, my wife and Dad (crew chief) were at the track, and if I didn't move, and they found out (heard) that I was not moving, that would have been maybe more painful to them. Third, I did have a radio system and I was able to PTT and tell them I was hurt, although this was more of a reaction by me, because I still scared the hell out them because I was screaming this phrase. :/
And to boot, my earphone got disconnected, so I couldn't hear them, but I was talking, and didn't realize they could hear me, but they could (good thing, because my Dad was the first one to tell the ambulance crew near the pits I was injured.) I then realized I was unplugged and was able to plug in my earpiece just in time to hear both of them yelling (trying to find each other), and that's when the corner worker got to me, and I disconnected the system.
ok, fourth, my car was steaming/smoking, so that's another reason I took down the window net, in case I had to get out fast, although would have been very painful and maybe more injury.
Anyway, so in general I would agree that an injured driver should just sit there.

Although I would really like to know those hand signals that we could use to signal the flaggers? Care to share them or let me know where I can find reference to them.
Thanks.
Victor

[Andy Bettencourt]

FWIW I do not believe what/how/when to 'signal' corner workers when involved in a crash was part of my drivers school curriculum. It should be.

AB

[RKramden]

Although I would really like to know those hand signals that we could use to signal the flaggers? Care to share them or let me know where I can find reference to them.
[/b]

I put it up at

http://webpages.charter.net/super7/SCCA-FnC.pdf

File is only 3 Meg, and you really care about pages 45, 46, 47 (Appendix A)

There are other signals, like "Turkey with his head up his ...", "Flagger upside down in the tire wall", and "For those who don't deserve the very best..." but you probable don't need those.

FWIW I do not believe what/how/when to 'signal' corner workers when involved in a crash was part of my drivers school curriculum. It should be.
[/b]

Yes it should. You might have a chat with Alan D.

Or maybe it could get added as a topic at the next few (or all) drivers meetings as well.

Or both.

[itracer]

Although I would really like to know those hand signals that we could use to signal the flaggers? Care to share them or let me know where I can find reference to them.
Thanks.
Victor
[/b]

From looking at all of the signals that RKramden referenced, my instinct would be to pat my head (or the roof of the car) with my hand to signal that I need assistance. Similar to what you might do to get a grid worker's attention.

Victor-- I totally understand the desire to put down the window net. If I thought I was ok I would have done the same thing. Once the net is down, you can still pound your hand on the top of the roof. I would choose this because it is really hard to make the two handed "A" signal for ambulance when you are in the car.

Wishing you a speedy recovery...

~Jason

[16v]

Thanks for the link Dave I have been trying to understand the workers signs for a few years now

[RKramden]

Thanks for the link Dave I have been trying to understand the workers signs for a few years now
[/b]

Did you ever think to ask?

It's like the secret signs of the freemasons, but now, since you know them, you have to actually go out and flag once in a while, to keep current....

That was the real reason I told you what they were.

Ask Greg or Dick about the super secret Tech Inspector handshake.

Or the code words to use at registration.

[16v]

Did you ever think to ask?

It's like the secret signs of the freemasons, but now, since you know them, you have to actually go out and flag once in a while, to keep current.... :happy204:


Ask Greg or Dick about the super secret Tech Inspector handshake.


[/b]

I asked someone at one of the ALMS events at LRP and they blew me off so, from that point forward I just tried to understand on my own B)


and no, I don't want to know any of the secret handshakes... I feel violated just thinking about it :035:

[Marc]

Just a quick note referencing what Victor said about the "car just stopped".

A couple years ago I hit the tire wall on the inside of West Bend in a Miata - part of the ALMS weekend - flat on the drivers side. It seemed like just for that weekend (you could tell by the pattens in the grass), they had moved the tire barrier about 6 feet out from the wall. It felt like a big pillow when I hit it - I pushed a huge pile of tires all the way back to the wall, and must have disipated a ton of energy that way. I was fine, and the car had very little damage.

Seems to me that should be standad practice whenever there is room to do it, and the place where Victor hit seems like the perfect spot. May not be the perfect solution for all cases, but the cost is low (free), and the potential benefits high.

marc