Summit Race reports?

[Thorshammer]

ah yes, the 911 ITE car, I forgot.

Decent on the restart, no worries. Got by a few when I got the green, green, green on the radio. Good things those radios. But I like to talk on them too much.

I was in the 944. Hence rod bearing failure. First time to Summit. interesting layout, I will go next year in my EP car, should be a blast. BTW, anyone got 16v photos, they are good.


Erik

[JLawton]

The discussion on the other thread about Brian's big roll brings up another question. When we were talking to him after, he mentioned how surprised he was that no one came out to help him. The workers stood on the berm and yelled to him. That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?

[Knestis]

Sorry - on yet another topic, maybe someone up SP/DCR way can talk the powers-that-be into uploading the results to mylaps.com - James, Matt, Dave, et al.? It's so amazingly useful to review that data after a long one...
K

[timelapseracing]

That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?
[/b]

It is SOP to not place yourself in a situation where you will be in mortal danger as a flagger. Most/all of the flaggers know that where that car was sitting is in the normal area where cars go when they run through 10 a little fast or get a little wide. Each situation is assesed by the responding worker at that time. I was on my dinner break from working turn 3 at the time of the roll and saw the end of the response from the pits. I'm glad that he is ok, I'm pretty sure the worker didn't come right away because the driver was extricating himself, and the car was in an area which has a very high probability of having an additional impact until traffic gets slowed down. I'm sure that if he wasn't moving so well, or if there were signs of fire, the workers would have been there much faster, even with the car in that location.

By the way, you all did a fine job through turn 3 all day. Some creative lines necessitated by some slow moving traffic or by too many cars in one place, but congrats on not getting stuck in our gravel pit. We only had 4 flaggers for the turn for the whole race.

Can't wait for the next MARRS when I can see if watching 12 hours of turn-ins, apexes, and trackouts will improve my speed through 3.


Jason

[JamesB]

Kirk - Mylaps is not going to happen. Thats why offtotheraces.net was started. Even thought they use the latest software to collect the data, they use a DOS program to format the official results and I dont see it changing anytime soon.

As already stated, the SOP is to asses the situation but not put yourself in dangers way. Had the car been on fire or other issues I am sure the corner worker would have approched the car.

[mgyip]

Sorry - on yet another topic, maybe someone up SP/DCR way can talk the powers-that-be into uploading the results to mylaps.com - James, Matt, Dave, et al.? It's so amazingly useful to review that data after a long one...[/b]

This issue has been raised with WDCR T&S in the past but MyLaps doesn't provide proper reporting to National according to our T&S Chief who (as James points out) prefers a DOS-based program b/c it meets the "letter of the law". This is the same reason why they resisted Orbitz and Chronx b/c neither program properly recorded data according to the GCR.

I wonder if this is an GCR oversight (outdated language that has not been changed) or if every other region is using an "illegal" T&S system. It would be interesting to protest EVERY SCCA REGION except WDCR b/c their results aren't in the proper format - can you imagine the firestorm? h34r:

Can't wait for the next MARRS when I can see if watching 12 hours of turn-ins, apexes, and trackouts will improve my speed through 3.[/b]

Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style"

[timelapseracing]

Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style"
[/b]

- I think the F&C folks thought it was funny to put me at 3 since at MARRS 1 I spun in qual 1, and parked in the gravel needing a tow in qual 2. - They have a good sense of humor. -

- Dori Dori Matt - I just can't get that same crazy FWD angle and pull it off.

Jason

[Andy Bettencourt]

Any hints as to why the MyLaps (read AM system doesn't produce the right results?

[JamesB]

Jason sure you can, switch to a front drive car

I think I will enter M5 since we have the month of August off anyway. Time to get to work I guess.

[dickita15]

The F&C worker in Brian’s crash had a very long run to get to the scene. While we were watching Brian hoping to see him climb out this guy was hoofing it along the top of the bank. Brian was out and standing by the time the guy got there. As soon as the flagger got close enough he called to Brian to come to him. I am confident that had Brian not immediately started walking to him he would have gone to Brian to assist him.

[mgyip]

Any hints as to why the MyLaps (read AM system doesn't produce the right results?
[/b]

IIRC, it has something to do with a duplicate reporting requirement but it was explained quite some time ago and my memory sucks.

Gregg - Would you be so kind as to have T&S explain why they don't use MyLaps when you're at the next Comp Committee meeting? They've explained it to me in the past but I was busy with iCard and honestly didn't let the information sink in (either that or it has seeped out).

[jjjanos]

I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?[/b]

1. Call for the ambulance.
2. Find out from the bank whether the driver is OK.
3. Driver OK? Stay put and wait for ambulance.
4. No answer or driver says he is hurt? Stay put and wait for ambulance.

Unless the car is on fire, putting a flagger down there does nothing except raise the potential danger.

[Knestis]

If the TS chief wants to use a different app to format the official results for Topeka, that's totally fine but isn't the raw AMB data still available? Isn't it a relatively simple thing to provide it to mylaps.com? What am I missing? Providing a service to entrants is a separate function from meeting the letter of the GCR where reporting is concerned.

K

[erlrich]

The workers stood on the berm and yelled to him. That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this? [/b]

Dick hit the nail on the head. I was at the pit wall within seconds of the incident, and the first thing I noticed was the corner worker running down the berm from the far corner. The reason that caught my attention was I know that when the corners are fully staffed there is usually a corner worker stationed atop the berm much closer to where Brian's car came to rest (it's actually called station 11). I'm pretty confident that had there been a worker at station 11 he would have been down the hill as soon as the yellow had gone up (I know I would have anyway). But as it turned out the guy from 10 had to do a sprint (carrying a 20 lb. extinguisher btw) from down by the bleachers, and just arrived at the top of the berm as Brian was climbing out of the car.

The only thing I would question about the corner worker's response is the actual placement of the workers. I have only worked F&C a half-dozen times, and so don't profess to be an expert, but I do recall from working 10 that the guy at station 11 usually gets way more business than the guy way back in the corner. I'm sure there was a reason for doing it that way, I'm just not sure I see it.

[EV]

1. Call for the ambulance.
2. Find out from the bank whether the driver is OK.
3. Driver OK? Stay put and wait for ambulance.
4. No answer or driver says he is hurt? Stay put and wait for ambulance.

Unless the car is on fire, putting a flagger down there does nothing except raise the potential danger.
[/b]

The number one rule is to protect ones own keister...
Rule 2 is to protect any other workers keister...
Rule 3 the driver who you are responding to's keister
Rule 4 all the other drivers keisters..

After that all you have to do is wait 2 laps for the steward to decide to release the safety truck :angry:

If the workers presents at the scene won't add to the safety of the situation, then staying on the bank is the best place for them. When I arrive with the truck, I put 7,000 of metal between me and and the red mist still on track. A flagger doesn't have that option. Even if the driver was knocked out, he is still belted in and surrounded by a roll cage, the corner worker wouldn't be. The worker did just as he/she should have.

I only wish the driver had gotten out on the drivers side not the passenger side...

[RSTPerformance]

This issue has been raised with WDCR T&S in the past but MyLaps doesn't provide proper reporting to National according to our T&S Chief who (as James points out) prefers a DOS-based program b/c it meets the "letter of the law". This is the same reason why they resisted Orbitz and Chronx b/c neither program properly recorded data according to the GCR.

I wonder if this is an GCR oversight (outdated language that has not been changed) or if every other region is using an "illegal" T&S system. It would be interesting to protest EVERY SCCA REGION except WDCR b/c their results aren't in the proper format - can you imagine the firestorm? h34r:
Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style"
[/b]

I think you are incorrect in your "guess" that every other region uses only the mylaps results format... Try looking at the "official Results" that are posted. Most times they are a completely different format with completely different information on it, and possibly different results.

A results example of another "perfect" region other than WDCR-Summit Point would be Pocono. The Mylaps results showed me in last place, however the "official results" were correct in showing me in second place. That is just one example of a region outside of WDCR that posts/submits correct results, AND has MyLaps results shown for the drivers benefit.

Before you go questioning what other regions are doing maybe you should check into it. I know Summit Point races are suposed to be the best at everything but we (other regions) all do a great job also. -sorry to rant, its not ment to be offensive.

If the TS chief wants to use a different app to format the official results for Topeka, that's totally fine but isn't the raw AMB data still available? Isn't it a relatively simple thing to provide it to mylaps.com? What am I missing? Providing a service to entrants is a separate function from meeting the letter of the GCR where reporting is concerned.

K
[/b]

K- Other regions seem to be going out of thier way to update MyLaps for the drivers without any issues. You might want to contact someone in T&S at WDCR to see why they don't go this for the drivers and maybe they will change thier mind.


On another side note... T&S has come a LONG way over the years thanks to technology. T&S has probably advanced more than ANY other specialty. Some regions/people can learn/adapt quicker than others. IMO a big thank you goes out to ALL regions T&S people for continuing to do an outstanding job and doing the best they can with the every changing technology that is out thier!!! Thanks

Raymond "just my thoughts, again not ment to be insulting, just eye opening" Blethen

[Greg Amy]

I only wish the driver had gotten out on the drivers side not the passenger side...[/b]

There's a heck of a lot more manuevering room on the passenger side of the car. Imagine trying to crawl out of a car, upside down, while having to crawl over/under/through extra rollcage door bars, a racing seat, hanging harnesses, shifter, steering wheel, window net, what else? Conversely, there's this really big and wide open hole just to the other side...

Been there, done that. - GA

[BillW]

Regarding MyLaps.com... What is the problem again? I know they have uploaded data before, because last years race is there:

2005 SP 12 hr race

Bill

[Jeremy Billiel]

Brian usually has videos on his site, but I don't see it up. Any chance he posted it somewhere else? I am still trying to figure out what happened since I have not been to summit before.

[EV]

There's a heck of a lot more manuevering room on the passenger side of the car. Imagine trying to crawl out of a car, upside down, while having to crawl over/under/through extra rollcage door bars, a racing seat, hanging harnesses, shifter, steering wheel, window net, what else? Conversely, there's this really big and wide open hole just to the other side...

Been there, done that. - GA
[/b]

[edited...]I too am glad that Brian Mushnick is ok. He crawled out of the upside down Golf and stood there making the perfect target of himself after the roll. Thankfully nobody collected him while he was greatly exposed.[edited..][/b]

Even Dave agrees

I guess it's just the safety worker in me that wants to keep the car between me and the rest of the track. I have had a car chase me out of a gravel trap once during a hot pull (I gave him back the gravel he placed in my pocket), it's no fun. Brian had his back to traffic and would have never seen the car he was about to become a hood ornament for.

When I mentioned rule #1 above, part of that is to keep something heavy between you and traffic.

Just a suggestion..